[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Powiat maps of Russian Poland

Thu Mar 18 10:55:25 PST 2004

Nelson,

I am certainly not the last word on this subject, but here are some 
thoughts so far as the data that we enter in our databases.  These are all 
my opinions, so someone may change my opinion if they can show me the error 
of my ways:

1.  If we have an original record, we should always use the name that is in 
the original record SOMEWHERE in our database.  This has some confusing 
implications regarding areas that have changed jurisdictions with time, but 
it is better to note what is found in the original record than it is to 
ignore it and have others that follow you think that you entered the wrong 
data.  For instance (and I hope I am giving a good example), if you wrote 
that an event occurred in Leduc, NWT, Canada (NWT=Northwest Territories), 
that would be correct for the early years of of Canadian history.  It is 
today, of course Leduc, Alberta, Canada.   In this example, since most 
people would be confused by Leduc, NWT, Canada, I would personally enter 
Leduc, Alberta, Canada as the main place, and then enter, either as a 
separate note, or in parenthesis after the current place "formerly Leduc, 
NWT, Canada".  Your choice on this one.  Note that modern family history 
programs allow a very long name as a place name, but you will probably mess 
up the automatic feature that most of these programs have of shortening the 
place name in reports where there is not enough room for the entire place name.

2.  If a place is misspelled in the original record, and IF YOU ARE 
ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT THERE REALLY IS NOT SUCH A PLACE AS THE MISSPELLED 
PLACE, then correct the spelling in your database entry, but add a note 
that says that the original record has the place misspelled and then list 
the misspelled place as it is shown in the record.  Sometimes you later 
find that there really is such a misspelled place, and good record keeping 
on your part will help you help you sort this out later.

3.  If you enter a place, enter the complete name of the place IF YOU CAN 
FIGURE OUT WHERE IT IS.  As I mentioned in an earlier email, some places, 
especially Poland and Volhynia, but even places in the USA and Canada show 
up many times in the same state or province.  Try to pin down the correct 
location based on the places of birth or death or marriage of siblings or 
the parents or children of the siblings.

4.  If you are entering a place name that is foreign to you, you will be 
wise to  use some consistent identification system so that the place can be 
located- a gazetteer is good for this.  It is, however, always appropriate 
to list the next larger town in the vicinity of the place you are 
researching if you cannot figure out how to enter the complete place name 
that includes all the district and provincial designations.

Gary Warner
Gig Harbor, Pierce, Washington, USA (there, I followed my own advice!)

At 10:10 AM 3/18/2004, Nelson Itterman wrote:
>This discussion has certainly gone in every direction and has stimulated
>much thought. It brings to point as to where I should list my birth. I was
>born in Volhynia in 1924 and have always stated that I was born in Russia.
>Since the USR was formed on December 30th, 1922 should I now list my birith
>as the USSR, the SSR of Ukraine and Belarus, or is it still Russia?
>Since my last application for a passport allowed me to choose between
>showing my place of birth as Russia or the Ukraine, I opted for the Ukraine.
>which I now know is historically incorrect. Perhaps someone out there can
>shed some light on the subject, or muddy the waters some more.
>
>Nelson
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jutta Dennerlein" <Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de>
>To: "ger-poland-volhynia" <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
>Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:25 AM
>Subject: RE: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Powiat maps of Russian Poland
>
>
> > Karl, I recently had a discussion with another genealogist how likely it
> > would be that an English speaking Census Taker would write down
> > 'Friedrichsburg' when a German immigrant gave his place of birth as
> > 'Friedrichsberg' using a heavy German accent and trying to speak English.
> > So I just tried to imagine what kind of data you would find today if your
> > ancestors would have answered "(Kustanai) Qostanay, Kazakhstan" as their
> > origin :)
> >
> > I think it is a good idea to enter the current country. But then the world
> > keeps changing and even your carefully researched data can only be
> > interpreted in a correct way if it is dated information. Anyone using your
> > data in 50 years time might have the same difficulties locating the places
> > if he/she doesn't consider the fact that you entered the data in 2004 and
> > that he/she will need an (old) map of that time period to find the place.
> > Maybe adding the geographical coordinates would be a good option?
> >
> > Jutta
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org]On Behalf Of Karl
> > Krueger
> > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:02 AM
> > To: Peter Fischer
> > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia
> > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Powiat maps of Russian Poland
> >
> >
> > >Secondly, many
> > >people that post ancestral information simply put Germany or Poland, etc.
> > down
> > >as a birthplace. It would be the same as stating North America for any of
> > us
> > >over on this side of the pond.
> >
> > >I guess its just a pet peeve of mine
> >
> > Well that's a pet peeve of mine too but unfortunately many times all we
>have
> > to go on is what others know, and this may be all they know. If they had
>no
> > interest in genealogy they would not realize the importance of giving
> > specific information. Another good example I see all the time is Germans
>who
> > listed their parent's death location in EWZ as Russland. When you
>translate
> > that into our current geography that could mean Russia, Belarus, Ukraine,
> > Kazakhstan, and as was just confirmed to me this week Uzbekistan. So at
>the
> > time, any cities I find in these EWZ records would have been the Soviet
> > Union but many times that gives readers little idea of where that location
> > is.
> >
> > To help out anyone in the future using the data I enter, I have been
> > entering the current country just so they know where to find this city.
> > "Russland" is a vast land where even some genealogists might get lost just
> > as many Germans did. "Kustanai, Russland" really tells you nothing but
> > "(Kustanai) Qostanay, Kazakhstan" immediately tells how far this family
>was
> > displaced and where you need to look for this bizarre city.
> >
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
> >
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