[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Birth record abbreviations - Col. vs. Kol.

Sun Apr 23 01:34:59 PDT 2006

The differences between p and pf, e and oe, i and ue, oe and ue result
from the difference between Low German and High German. Plum and Appel
are Low German, Pflaume and Apfel are High Germen (See Grenke and
Groenke, Krieger and Krueger and so on). Flaume (Pflaume without “P”) is
nothing but sloppily spoken High German. 
Formerly the spelling of names often followed the Low German
pronunciation, later people had to spell their names exactly in the
official (High German) manner.
I think our ancestors took some liberties with the spelling of their
names. So my g-grandfather signed a document with Groening, another with
Gruening.

“K” and “C”: 
“C” corresponds to the Latin spelling. Maybe it was a question of
“fashion”, because it appeared to be nobler than “K”.

Annegret Krause

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
merschel at ucla.edu
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 10:00 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Birth record abbreviations - Col. vs.
Kol.

During the 19th century the Brothers Grimm discovered linguistics and 
popularized the older spellings of names.  They were famous not just 
for compiling fairy tales but also for Grimm's law which I believe 
documented one of the sound changes "oe" to "e" in which, incidentally, 
my last name got caught up.  During this era it became fashionable to 
rediscover the old spellings so many people changed the "k" to "c" 
which was the older spelling.  There are people during the 19th century 
who were born Karl but changed their names to Carl.  So, first it was 
"c" then "k" then "c".  Name changes happen much slower than changes in 
the language.  An interesting example to me is the "p" sound.  The 
English language left Europe while people were still saying "apple" or 
"Appel"; the same happened with "plum" as another example.  It was 
later that the "p" sound became "pf".  Proper German is Pflaume or 
Apfel.  With Pflaume some people don't even pronounce the "P" any 
longer.  So, if Fiona Apple had been born in old Germany she might have 
been a plum apple.  :-)

Quoting Karl Krueger <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>:

> Before your explanation here I was siding with George (only because 
> of my knowledge of present German). Now I would probably agree with 
> Jerry. I guess you would have to see how this person used the C and K 
> in all records. I have seen one guy keep switching around over a 
> period of several years as he appeared to be spelling phonetically so 
> whatever his whim was in that period, that's the way he spelled it.
>
> Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca> wrote:  In this case, I have to 
> disagree with George. While his suggestion may be valid in certain 
> times and places, I would suggest it does not apply to Volhynia for 2 
> reasons.
>
> 1. Kolonie is certainly the correct modern form of the word. However, 
> it appears that in the 19th century, Germans were experimenting with 
> a switch to "C". There are numerous instances in the German language 
> Volhynian records, especially as recorded by some pastors, where Karl 
> is written as Carl, Karoline as Caroline, Kristof as Christof, etc. 
> Similarly, Kolonie is written as Colonie and abbreviated as Col.
>
> 2. If Colporteur were correct, then the vast majority of Germans in 
> Volhynia would have to be salesmen. This simply was not true. Most 
> records show the father as a Col. or Colonist which is an accurate 
> depiction of their role in society at that time.
>
>
> Jerry Frank
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: shoning at att.net
> Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 3:48 am
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Birth record abbreviations
>
>> Hi Nelson,
>>
>> I responded to Wendy privately inadvertently, because I had
>> intended to append to this thread. "Col" most likely is the word
>> "Colporteur" which means one of the following: land (tract)
>> salesman, a street salesman, an itinerant book seller, or
>> newsmonger (one who disseminates news on the streets). It is of
>> French derivation. If "Col" were "colonist" and appeared in a
>> German document, it would be most likely "Kol" for the German
>> "Kolonist".
>> George Shoning
>>
>> -------------- Original message from "Nelson Itterman"
>> : --------------
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi Wendy and Rita:
>> > That's OK for Paten. What about the "Col" in front of the male
>> names? Is
>> > that short for Colonist?
>> > Nelson
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
>> > [ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
>> > rlyster at telusplanet.net
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:30 PM
>> > To: Wendy Otness
>> > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>> > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Birth record abbreviations
>> >
>> > Hi Wendy,
>> > "Paten" are godparents according to my understanding of the
>> language.
>> > "Paten Mutter" godmother and "Paten Vater" godfather. It was
>> very much the
>> > relgious custom of the day to have godparents.
>> >
>> > Rita Lyster
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Quoting Wendy Otness :
>> >
>> > > Good morning, everyone!
>> > > I have been fortunate enough to come across a birth record for
>> my great
>> > > grandmother. It is written in German for the most part, and I
>> have
>> > > noticed in front of most of the male names, it says "Col". Can
>> anyone
>> > > tell me what that might mean? Also, there was the heading
>> "Paten", which
>> > > I am assuming is Godparents, but can't find it in my German-
>> English
>> > > dictionary. This document is from 1878, so maybe this word is
>> just an
>> > > old word not in use anymore?
>> > >
>> > > Thanks in advance.
>> > > Wendy
>> > >
>> > >
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