[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 41, Issue 7
Ed Sonnenburg
esonnenburg at sympatico.ca
Fri Oct 6 07:31:26 PDT 2006
what also may be confusing is that when a child died the next child
the couple had got the same name as the deceased one.
----- Original Message -----
From: "verna hutchinson" <vhutchin at mts.net>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 41,Issue
7
> Hi All;
>
> Besides doing my Volhynian ancestry and finding a new born child named
after
> a deceased sibling, I've also been doing my husband's English roots back
to
> the 1400s and I've come across the same naming pattern of the latest
newborn
> taking the name of their deceased sibling.
> I'm still looking for more long lost Kuhl & Janke cousins from Volhynia!
>
> Have a Happy Thanksgiving weekend everyone--we have much to be thankful
for-
> I, for one, am thankful that our ancestors were given the foresight to
come
> to Canada---
> Regards,
> Verna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
> ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
> Sent: October 6, 2006 4:50 AM
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 41, Issue 7
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Tidbits of Info (Robert Norenberg)
> 2. Re: Tidbits of Info (Donne, Alexsana)
> 3. Re: Tidbits of Info (Jerry Frank)
> 4. Re: Tidbits of Info (Jeff Krebs)
> 5. Re: Tidbits of Info (Jerry Frank)
> 6. Re: Tidbits of Info -- reuse of names (Myron E. Williams)
> 7. Names, names, names. . . (Otto)
> 8. Re: Names, names, names. . . (G?nther B?hm)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 16:50:25 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Robert Norenberg <robertnorenberg at yahoo.ca>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tidbits of Info
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <20061005205025.35694.qmail at web54512.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi Jerry
>
> I saw a comment you made at some web site which said
> it was common practice to name a child after a
> previous dead child with the same name.I found this
> very helpful and it answered some puzzles for me. I
> would like to know how you knew this. Is it something
> you read or just knew due to your heritage? It's
> little clues like this that can be very helpful. If it
> is something you read, there may be other helpful
> clues as well.
> Regards Robert Norenberg
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 14:32:16 -0700
> From: "Donne, Alexsana" <ADonne at sara.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tidbits of Info
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID:
> <7D0D2D68DE274C49B64E47120C0954590D467C at MERCURY.sarainc.sara.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Is there a set of guidelines somewhere for beginning genealogists? I
> discovered naming a child after a previous child by accident in my
> searches, along with certain family names being handed down over and
> over and over again.
>
> Thanks,
> Lexi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-
>
> Hi Jerry
>
> I saw a comment you made at some web site which said
> it was common practice to name a child after a
> previous dead child with the same name.I found this
> very helpful and it answered some puzzles for me. I
> would like to know how you knew this. Is it something
> you read or just knew due to your heritage? It's
> little clues like this that can be very helpful. If it
> is something you read, there may be other helpful
> clues as well.
> Regards Robert Norenberg
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 15:36:17 -0600
> From: Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tidbits of Info
> To: Robert Norenberg <robertnorenberg at yahoo.ca>
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <b95473b968d2.b968d2b95473 at shaw.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Robert -
>
> I don't recall if I was told about it first or if I first encountered it
in
> my research. I don't remember seeing the practice very much in the
Volhynia
> extractions I did but it was very common in the early Russian Poland
records
> I have researched and in the Wuerttemberg records I have encountered going
> all the way back to c.1560.
>
> It may be that the practice is most popular in certain regions. I have
> found numerous examples in my Schwabisch maternal line but none in my
> paternal line of unknown origins. I don't know if it was common practice
in
> Prussian regions. Perhaps someone else can advise further about that.
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Norenberg <robertnorenberg at yahoo.ca>
> Date: Thursday, October 5, 2006 2:50 pm
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tidbits of Info
>
> > Hi Jerry
> >
> > I saw a comment you made at some web site which said
> > it was common practice to name a child after a
> > previous dead child with the same name.I found this
> > very helpful and it answered some puzzles for me. I
> > would like to know how you knew this. Is it something
> > you read or just knew due to your heritage? It's
> > little clues like this that can be very helpful. If it
> > is something you read, there may be other helpful
> > clues as well.
> > Regards Robert Norenberg
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 16:39:19 -0600
> From: Jeff Krebs <jeffkrebs at shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tidbits of Info
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID:
>
>
<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA31soOuEvYU+GwgjhbhSzDcKAAAAQ
> AAAA7idHtagRPUmYNb/DOvVg4wEAAAAA at shaw.ca>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> All
>
> One line of my family came to Canada from Galicia. Through the records
I've
> received from Manfred Daum, the practice appeared to be quite common, at
> least in my family. In some cases, the same name appeared 3 times in a
row
> which really confused me.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jerry
> Frank
> Sent: October 5, 2006 3:36 PM
> To: Robert Norenberg
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tidbits of Info
>
> Robert -
>
> I don't recall if I was told about it first or if I first encountered it
in
> my research. I don't remember seeing the practice very much in the
Volhynia
> extractions I did but it was very common in the early Russian Poland
records
> I have researched and in the Wuerttemberg records I have encountered going
> all the way back to c.1560.
>
> It may be that the practice is most popular in certain regions. I have
> found numerous examples in my Schwabisch maternal line but none in my
> paternal line of unknown origins. I don't know if it was common practice
in
> Prussian regions. Perhaps someone else can advise further about that.
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Norenberg <robertnorenberg at yahoo.ca>
> Date: Thursday, October 5, 2006 2:50 pm
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tidbits of Info
>
> > Hi Jerry
> >
> > I saw a comment you made at some web site which said
> > it was common practice to name a child after a
> > previous dead child with the same name.I found this
> > very helpful and it answered some puzzles for me. I
> > would like to know how you knew this. Is it something
> > you read or just knew due to your heritage? It's
> > little clues like this that can be very helpful. If it
> > is something you read, there may be other helpful
> > clues as well.
> > Regards Robert Norenberg
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 16:44:34 -0600
> From: Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tidbits of Info
> To: "Donne, Alexsana" <ADonne at sara.com>
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <baa133ba9873.ba9873baa133 at shaw.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Lexi:
>
> Trying to establish rules or even guidelines regarding naming practices
can
> be very tricky - perhaps even unwise. Just when you think you have found
a
> pattern, the rule gets broken. If you rely too much on the pattern, your
> research can be slowed or may contain errors.
>
> The example currently under discussion occurs but never with consistency.
> It may change from one generation to another, from one family branch to
> another; or may skip a generation or two.
>
> When you encounter anomalies, it is probably best to simply question them
in
> a forum such as this. Chances are that someone else has "been there" and
> you will get an explanation.
>
> In spite of my caution, I would encourage others to participate in this
> discussion by letting us know certain practices that you may have
uncovered
> in your German research.
>
>
> Jerry Frank
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donne, Alexsana" <ADonne at sara.com>
> Date: Thursday, October 5, 2006 3:32 pm
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tidbits of Info
>
> > Is there a set of guidelines somewhere for beginning genealogists? I
> > discovered naming a child after a previous child by accident in my
> > searches, along with certain family names being handed down over and
> > over and over again.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lexi
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> > [ger-poland-volhynia-
> >
> > Hi Jerry
> >
> > I saw a comment you made at some web site which said
> > it was common practice to name a child after a
> > previous dead child with the same name.I found this
> > very helpful and it answered some puzzles for me. I
> > would like to know how you knew this. Is it something
> > you read or just knew due to your heritage? It's
> > little clues like this that can be very helpful. If it
> > is something you read, there may be other helpful
> > clues as well.
> > Regards Robert Norenberg
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 18:08:35 -0500
> From: "Myron E. Williams" <myronwms at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tidbits of Info -- reuse of names
> To: Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <45259073.6010208 at charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> It is fairly common practice among American immigrants in the 19th &
> 20th centuries.
>
> Myron E. Williams
> Crossville, TN
>
>
> Jerry Frank wrote:
>
> >Robert -
> >
> >I don't recall if I was told about it first or if I first encountered it
in
> my research. I don't remember seeing the practice very much in the
Volhynia
> extractions I did but it was very common in the early Russian Poland
records
> I have researched and in the Wuerttemberg records I have encountered going
> all the way back to c.1560.
> >
> >It may be that the practice is most popular in certain regions. I have
> found numerous examples in my Schwabisch maternal line but none in my
> paternal line of unknown origins. I don't know if it was common practice
in
> Prussian regions. Perhaps someone else can advise further about that.
> >
> >
> >Jerry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Robert Norenberg <robertnorenberg at yahoo.ca>
> >Date: Thursday, October 5, 2006 2:50 pm
> >Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tidbits of Info
> >
> >
> >
> >>Hi Jerry
> >>
> >> I saw a comment you made at some web site which said
> >>it was common practice to name a child after a
> >>previous dead child with the same name.I found this
> >>very helpful and it answered some puzzles for me. I
> >>would like to know how you knew this. Is it something
> >>you read or just knew due to your heritage? It's
> >>little clues like this that can be very helpful. If it
> >>is something you read, there may be other helpful
> >>clues as well.
> >> Regards Robert Norenberg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> >Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> >Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 01:10:25 -0400
> From: Otto <otto at schienke.com>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Names, names, names. . .
> To: S G G E E <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <CB667F79-6468-4458-9650-6442574ABC54 at schienke.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
> format=flowed
>
> This may help.
> Our understanding is an art, not a science. Being an art, we are
> practitioners exchanging technique. I always welcome pointers and
> helpful bits from everyone. We remain, Man, the namer.
>
> I have a cousin in Houston I share my surname with, a cousin that has
> the same first given name as I but his second given name is not Otto,
> his second given name is my younger brother's first given name.
>
> Cousin Richard and I have come to a conclusion; the colonists
> originally had a Name Book shared by the villages, a book that
> eventually was destroyed in a fire at the beginning of the
> colonization. . . that is, all but one page of names that were
> memorized and used by them as they dispersed throughout Eastern Europe.
>
> We were only kidding, yet it would not be difficult to believe it was
> so as one becomes involved in microfilm research.
>
> As already stated, cultural or social patterns are iffy. We, who live
> in a global world and information rich society, must first
> familiarize ourselves with living conditions of the time period in
> question. Traveling with a horse and wagon would limit one to places
> fifteen miles distant.(24 kilometer) One half day to travel there,
> one half day to travel home before dark. At four miles an hour by
> horse or foot, it amounts to seven and one half hours of non-stop
> travel. (really 8 hrs. - 1/2 hr. alloted for a McDonald's stop)
>
> 15 mi./24 km. distance is a behavioral pattern based on self-
> preservation. When one left an immediate familial cluster, one faced
> the then present dangers of travel. Think on this.
>
> Farming clusters were dependent on each other for survival. Birthing,
> Planting, Harvesting, Dying. A single loss was a loss to everyone.
> People did not live in a village. They were the village.
>
> That brings us to the foremost pattern.
> -"The Cluster Effect". . . generated by survival based behavior.
> I cannot claim credit for the observation; the term, "Cluster Effect"
> was used in a genealogical lecture I attended in Chicago many years
> back. The lecturer was Stephen Barthel. (Posen/West Preussen-Steve's
> Dad was German, his mother Polish) At that time Steve was head of the
> European Eastern Territories records at the Main LDS library in Salt
> Lake City. I heard he eventually became head of the LDS library but
> that remains unsubstantiated on my part.
>
> The following are my observations based on working with Lutheran
> records-Catholic records/patterns differ.
> Little clusters are affected by the Big World.
>
> The Cluster Effect also generates insight to the past. Patterns
> become visible.
> When extracting 'names' from village microfilm records, extract both
> paternal and maternal names. Extract witness and godparent names.
> (usually relatives until you prove out differently-think 'clan')
> Extract names of family friends-they may well be relatives a hundred
> years distant.
>
> Create a graphic diagram to visual the cluster. I call it my 'bunch
> of grapes'. Usually where I find a 'grape', I know the 'bunch' is
> close by.
>
> -Each cluster will vary a bit. Life is fluid.
>
> I've noted a trendy pattern regarding given names, say in 50-100 year
> increments in clusters. Near the end of the 1600's and the beginning
> of the 1700's, around the Danzig area, 'Martin' (undoubtedly Luther
> influence) and 'Regina' (L.-queen-a female sovereign) were popular.
> Reviewing film of that period, it seems every third person is a
> Martin or Regina. As they migrated the given name 'Jacob' became
> popular. (a bible-based leader-type character that traveled and
> prospered) Michael as a given name became popular. (now they were
> invoking the great archangel's power during times of turmoil) There
> are 'Friedrich' from "der alter Fritz the Great" period in history
> (an indicator) There are 'Lousia' after the beloved Prussian queen.
> (an indicator)
> Catholic girls usually have a 'Mary' in there somewhere, and Lutheran
> girls an 'Anna'. (indicators)
>
> -Become familiar with your Cluster's given name trends. (You'll come
> upon an earlier cluster and notice the given names are
> similar...Hmmm? It is in the names...)
> -Itemize all of the 'sisters' in a given family and their marriage
> surnames.
> -Sisters will have more effect on the shape and direction of a cluster.
>
> -Individuals of the cluster lost through war or disease, individuals
> childless, or individuals with lost children, may be commemorated by
> naming offspring after them to keep their name and memory alive.
> (loss of a cluster member left a saddening void)
>
> The locus of the cluster was undoubtedly their local Chapel or
> Parish. Their 'belief structure' held them together.
>
> -Research the life of the Pastor of the Parish. (I consider this
> very important)
> He was the door to the big world for the farming clusters.
> Where was he born? What seminary did he graduate from? Is this his
> first Parish assignment? If not, what Parishes had he served
> previously? He was the one that would indicate to his flock, "Come,
> this way," or indicate, Go, that way." Knowing this may open the
> door to where the cluster came from or went. Based on the pastor's
> education, he may also have been an influence in spelling changes of
> surnames, updating them to his present day accepted spellings.
>
> . . . Otto
>
> " The Zen moment..." wk. of September 24, 2006-
> ________________________________
> "Wisdom... has a corrosive effect on
> complications."
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 11:49:35 +0200
> From: G?nther B?hm <GHBoehm at ish.de>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Names, names, names. . .
> Cc: S G G E E <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <452626AF.8050300 at ish.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Otto schrieb:
>
> >Catholic girls usually have a 'Mary' in there somewhere, and Lutheran
> >girls an 'Anna'. (indicators)
> >
>
> Otto,
> I agree with all you wrote and appreciate it very much.
> Just one correction: 'Anna' (the mother of Mary) is a catholic indicator.
>
> Typical Lutheran names were - out of Martin of course - Gottfried,
> Gottlieb, Christian ("the christianized"), Gustav (Gustav Adolf, king of
> Sweden) and a lot of old-testamentarian names like Adam, Daniel, Jonas
> and Elias.
>
> Guenther
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 41, Issue 7
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>
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