[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Integration of Germans with Polish ethnicity

Wed Apr 25 15:37:31 PDT 2007

Hi Jerry....Yes...that is true...Here's the documented proof, and apparently
there was a conflict with Lutheran faith & Catholic faith. The document was
transcribed by my fine acquaintance Dr Margaret Polkroy...from the Polish
Language, and yes, the name originally is Witkowska the feminine name for
Witkoswki. Thanks again...Gilda:

Gilda J. Patterson, Researcher

Granddaughter of Olga Schmeltzer

& Eduard/Edward Purat/Porat

************************************************************************

Record of their children:

Xaver Wojciech (Albrecht) Schmeltzer & Maryjanna Ast

Marriage Record Nov 26th, 1843 5pm

Plock Parish Archives

Microfilm No. 729454

Xaver Wojciech Schmeltzer & Maryjanna Ast

Marriage Record ~ 1843 ~ 26th day of November, 1843 at 5:00 pm

~ Plock Parish, Plock, Warszawa, Poland~

It took place in Plock on the 26th day of November, 1843 at 5:00 pm. Acting
consciously and in the presence of witnesses: Krystjan (Christian) Vogel, a
27 year old farmer from Maszewo and Jakub (Jacob) Winkler, a 59 year old
homeworker from Maszewo, not related but well acquainted with the
newlywedded persons, a religious marriage ceremony took place between Xavery
Wojciech (XavierAlbrecht) Schmeltzer, a 19 year old young man, born in
Maszewo from Wojciech (Albert) and Terezja(Teresa) nee Witkowski Schmeltzer
tenant farmers, residing with his parents, of Roman Catholic faith with
Maryjanna (Marianne) Ast, a 23 year old maiden born in Lelice from Jerzy
(Georg) and Zofia (Sophia) nee Stutz Ast tenant farmers residing in Maszewo
with her parents. Marriage was preceded by three anouncements: October 31st,
November 7th, & 14th on Sundays in the Evangelical Church in Plock, Bride's
parish but not in the Groom's parish since the Parson of the Brwilno Parish
did not wish to announce due to different faiths of the newlyweds. Father of
the Groom gave conscious permission for the marriage. Newlyweds did not draw
up a prenuptial agreement. This document was read to all present and was
signed by the witnesses only as all the others declared that they cannot
read or write in the Polish language.

Jacob Winkler (signature)

Christian Vogel (signature)

Ignatius Karl Wilhelm Boerner, Pastor Plock Parish

NOTE: Names of parents mentioned on Marriage Record

Original Document Transcribed

>From the Polish Language by

Dr. Margaret Pokroy

On 4/25/07, Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> Your comments are absolutely correct, Gilda, EXCEPT for the possibility
> that your Witkowska (the feminine form for the Witkowski surname) might also
> be a Germanic family.  According to our SGGEE file of equivalent surnames,
> at least one Witkowski family was previously known as Fietz.  It is
> difficult to know for sure unless you can track that family back another few
> generations.
>
> One indicator (it is not proof) might be if the family with the assumed
> Polish surname is Catholic.  You might assume true Polish ethnicity with
> such info.  This would be especially true in Russian Poland where there were
> few German Catholics.  However, there were some so one must not consider
> such a situation as proof of anything.
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rachael Patterson <patterson.rachael at gmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 3:49 pm
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Integration of Germans with Polish
> ethnicity
>
> > Jerry...With response to Germans with Polish ethnicity...It seems
> > inevitablethat the German colonies in Poland might integrate
> > womewhat with the Polish
> > as my mother always said..."We were born in Poland, but we were not
> > 'Polish'"....however...when I've researched the family lineage and
> > recordsindicate that my 3GGrandfather (my mother's mother Olga
> > Schmeltzer'sgrandfather) Wojciech Schmeltzer married a woman
> > Terezja (my 3GGrandmother)
> > with the Polish maiden name of Witkoswka...thereby indicating that
> > we have a
> > Polish/German mix. Interesting....That's the farthest I've been
> > able to
> > trace on my Schmeltzer lineage.
> >
> > Gilda in Calgary, AB, CANADA
> >
> > >
> > > Message: 3
> > > Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:09:54 -0600
> > > From: Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
> > > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans and Poland
> > > To: LEN GOLKE <lengolke at msn.com>
> > > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> > > Message-ID: <f329c4572149.462f3702 at shaw.ca>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> > >
> > > Sue,
> > >
> > > Bronwyn may have some suggestions for research in the Pila area
> > as she has
> > > some experience in the Posen region.
> > >
> > > As for the ethnicity of a name - I'm not sure that we can always
> > determine> why a family with one type of ethnic name would insist
> > that they are
> > > another.  In the case of my Girschewski ancestor, it would
> > appear that the
> > > name evolved from the Germanic Gersch.  The family is known to
> > be Lutheran
> > > German as far back as it can be traced.  It is also known from
> > various> sources that there were German Catholic Girschewskis and
> > Polish Catholic
> > > Girschewskis with origins in the southeastern parts of
> > Pomerania.  I have
> > > not been able to resolve with certainty how the ethnic
> > variations in the
> > > name occurred or if there are any genealogical connections
> > between the
> > > families.
> > >
> > > I have sometimes wondered if a dominant partner in a marriage
> > might cause
> > > some of this diversity.  A Polish man with a Polish surname
> > might marry a
> > > dominant German woman who ensures that her children are raised
> > with German
> > > language, religion and culture as important parts of their lives
> > or vice
> > > versa.
> > >
> > > Certainly name changes by similarity or definition are known to have
> > > occurred in both directions - German to Polish, and Polish to
> > > German.  Sometimes only one branch of the family makes the
> > change.  Other
> > > times the change only shows up for a generation or two and then
> > it reverts
> > > back.  There are times when a nobleman might bestow the right of
> > a peasant
> > > to take his name (c/w von, or ski) in appreciation for some
> > particularly> meritous service.  All kinds of reason are possible.
> > >
> > > Ultimately the proof is in the record books where we might pick
> > up clues
> > > at least to when a name may have been changed.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jerry
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>