FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca
Sat Sep 29 09:54:46 PDT 2007
As I mentioned, I have no hard evidence (no examples) to back up my
ideas. It's just that historically, both of these "tribes" were
generally in what is now the eastern part of Ukraine. Therefore,
stories of Cossack raids or similar events in Volhynia or even
Russian Poland don't make sense to me. I'm sure that raids occurred
and that the people referred to the soldiers / hooligans / thugs etc.
as Cossacks. I guess I'm not convinced that they really were Cossacks.
At 10:27 AM 29/09/2007, Richard Benert wrote:
>I was very surprised when Alice told me about the Tatars in the
>Baptist church, and I asked her if it was really true, and, to the
>best of my memory, she confirmed it. I, too, am dubious, for all
>the reasons offered. But Alice was speaking of the early Soviet
>period--the 1920s. It is possible that some group of Tatars fled
>from somewhere in the Civil War and wound up in Volhynia. And
>perhaps the government had something to do with their using the
>Baptist church??? There's lots we don't know, eh? I wish I had
>asked Alice (Deblitz) Baumbach about this. She remembered just
>Your impression that "Tatar" and "Cossack" were terms that got
>applied to Ukrainians in general is interesting, Jerry. Can you
>recall any specific examples of this?
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Frank" <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
>To: "'Richard Benert'" <benovich at imt.net>; "'SGGEE Mail List'"
><ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
>Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 7:34 AM
>Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tatars
>>Nelson is correct. It does seem illogical that a Christian church
>>in that time and place would allow use by Muslims or that in fact
>>Muslims would want to use their church. I am also not convinced
>>that there would be any significant community of Tatars living in that region.
>>I get the impression that many of our ancestors referred to the
>>local Ukrainian population as either Cossaks or Tatars. I'm not
>>sure why that was. From reading the history of Cossaks and Tatars,
>>there seems to be no evidence for them being in the Volhynian
>>region. It seems that the term evolved to be applied to any of the
>>local populace - perhaps to the those of lowest social status such
>>as gypsies and bands of thugs that would raid a village from time
>>to time. These are just some thoughts with little hard evidence to
>>back them up.
>>Apparently Tatar is the more correct term but Tartar is an accepted
>>alternate. See http://www.britannica.com/eb/topic-584107/Tatar
>>Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
>>FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca
>>At 05:42 PM 28/09/2007, Nelson Itterman wrote:
>>>This does not seem possible, Dick. I understand the they were muslims, which
>>>would be in conflict with Christianity.
>>>From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
>>>[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Richard
>>>Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 2:32 PM
>>>To: SGGEE Mail List
>>>Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tatars
>>>My late cousin, Alice Buchholz of Creston, B.C., told me several years ago
>>>that the Baptist Church in Neudorf was used (rented?) periodically for
>>>services by Tatars.
>>>Has anyone any knowledge of Tatars living in Volhynia, like where and how
>>>And why in heaven's name can't it be decided whether to call them Tatars or
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Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca
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