[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 65, Issue 2
Susie Lewis
lewisinwaterloo at sympatico.ca
Thu Oct 2 18:54:10 PDT 2008
Further to my previous post, it seems that the web site some how disapeared.
Here it is:
www.dd-wast.de
click on 'english version'
then go to 'Tracing request'
scroll down a bit, another paragraph in english will appear below and
slightly to the right of the german one.
keep scrolling down click on 'Private matters'
from there you fill out the form.
Susie
----Original Message Follows----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
Reply-To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 65, Issue 2
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 12:00:02 -0700
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 65, Issue 1 (Susie Lewis)
2. Volhynian Village Adventure Tours (Don Miller)
3. Figuring Relationships (Leo Sonnenberg)
4. Re: Figuring Relationships (Otto)
5. Re: Figuring Relationships (Gary Warner)
6. Re: Figuring Relationships (Jerry Frank)
7. Re: Figuring Relationships (Karl Krueger)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 19:11:47 +0000
From: "Susie Lewis" <lewisinwaterloo at sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 65,
Issue 1
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <BLU130-F1183244EFC647ACA6D6604CB420 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Here is another web site for tracing people. This web site costs some but
does a five prong search (one of the prongs is the Red Cross mentioned
previously). I have used this site successfully to find a number of my
people. I have received military records as well as received a grave
location. It takes a long time but sure was worth it. After over 60 years
of not knowing we finally received some answers, so a few months wait was
nothing in comparison.
Susie
----Original Message Follows----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
Reply-To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 65, Issue 1
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 12:00:03 -0700
Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. DRK Suchdienst (Dr. Frank Stewner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:53:41 +0200
From: "Dr. Frank Stewner" <dr.stewner at t-online.de>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DRK Suchdienst
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <E86110AFED7B497A8EFA8477CE401C3D at haupt>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
The link to the page in english is:
https://www.drk-suchdienst.eu/content/categoryshow.php?CatID=2&lang=en
--------------------------------------------
Frank Stewner
------------------------------
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End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 65, Issue 1
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 13:22:19 -0700
From: "Don Miller" <dnmiller at whiz.to>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynian Village Adventure Tours
To: "Volhnia Mailing List" <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <005501c92403$67461dc0$6501a8c0 at DonMiller>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Announcement:
The next Volhynian Village Adventure Tour to Ukraine will be September 6-20,
2009. Details on my website will be available shortly; also a report of
this last year's tour in May.
Don Miller
Tour Leader
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 19:15:07 -0700
From: Leo Sonnenberg <sonnal at shaw.ca>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Figuring Relationships
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <48E42EAB.7020906 at shaw.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I recently received a list of ancestors on my father's side back to 1790
from a cousin in Germany. I was surprised to see that my grandfather on
my mother's side was also on the list.
My mother is a great granddaughter to the common ancestor and my father
is a great great grandson to the common ancestor. I am both a great
great grandson through my mother and a great great great grandson
through my father.
My questions are - A. what cousins are my parents to each other and B.
what am I to my distant grandfather? How would I classify myself - a
two great grandson or a three great grandson? So who am I?
Also, does this situation occur very often?
Any definition of my relationship to my distant grandfather is welcome
(including any jokes).
Leo Sonnenberg
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 22:47:31 -0400
From: Otto <otto at schienke.com>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Figuring Relationships
To: Leo Sonnenberg <sonnal at shaw.ca>
Cc: GPV List <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <F695C338-ABF2-4193-A454-200BAC1CDA46 at schienke.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Evening,
use the relationship chart I sent you to establish your legal
designation.
On the mother/father query simply separate kinship into paternal/
maternal sides.
You are both.
On Oct 1, 2008, at 10:15 PM, Leo Sonnenberg wrote:
>
> I recently received a list of ancestors on my father's side back to
> 1790
> from a cousin in Germany. I was surprised to see that my grandfather
> on
> my mother's side was also on the list.
> My mother is a great granddaughter to the common ancestor and my
> father
> is a great great grandson to the common ancestor. I am both a great
> great grandson through my mother and a great great great grandson
> through my father.
>
> My questions are - A. what cousins are my parents to each other and
> B.
> what am I to my distant grandfather? How would I classify myself - a
> two great grandson or a three great grandson? So who am I?
>
> Also, does this situation occur very often?
>
> Any definition of my relationship to my distant grandfather is welcome
> (including any jokes).
>
> Leo Sonnenberg
>
. . . Otto
" The Zen moment..." wk. of March 23, 2008-
________________________________
"Each of us. . . A bundle of possibilities."
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:52:38 -0700
From: Gary Warner <gary at warnerengineering.com>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Figuring Relationships
To: Leo Sonnenberg <sonnal at shaw.ca>
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <48E44586.9030601 at warnerengineering.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Leo,
If you believe that Adam and Eve were real people, then it is apparent
that our pedigree cannot keep increasing in the number of unrelated
grandparents indefinitely as your count generations back in time. In
order to get back to Adam and Eve, and also in order to reflect the fact
that fewer and fewer people were alive every century that a clock is
turned back, some of our ancestors NEED to be the same people- that is,
our pedigree chart has to start collapsing by virtue of multiple lines
becoming the repetetive.
In order to answer your question about how your parents are related,
there are two ways to do that: 1.) you either need to manually start at
a common ancestor in each line and figure out how each generation is
related; or 2.) it is easier if a computer program like Legacy figures
it out for you, but then you need to enter the data into the program to
do that (you really need to do that anyway if you are going to preserve
the information you found). If there are multiple people that you have
in common in the lines (not that uncommon), then you have multiple
relationships to figure out. Your parents could easily be 5th or 6th
or 7th cousins, or possibly all three.
1st generation- a single person is himself or herself
2nd generation- relationship is siblings
3rd generation- relationship is 1st cousins
4th generation- relationship is 2nd cousins
If one of the generational lines gets out of step with another one in
time, as happens when one line has children at age 20, and the other one
has children at age 40 and then the children of one line marry the
grandchildren of another line, then the relationship becomes once
removed. For instance, my father had me when he was in his mid forties,
and his siblings had their children when they were in there 20s. So I
am 20 or more years younger than my first cousins, and my 1st cousin's
children are the same age as I am- each of those children are therefore
my 1st cousin once removed.
Gary Warner
Leo Sonnenberg wrote:
> I recently received a list of ancestors on my father's side back to 1790
> from a cousin in Germany. I was surprised to see that my grandfather on
> my mother's side was also on the list.
> My mother is a great granddaughter to the common ancestor and my father
> is a great great grandson to the common ancestor. I am both a great
> great grandson through my mother and a great great great grandson
> through my father.
>
> My questions are - A. what cousins are my parents to each other and B.
> what am I to my distant grandfather? How would I classify myself - a
> two great grandson or a three great grandson? So who am I?
>
> Also, does this situation occur very often?
>
> Any definition of my relationship to my distant grandfather is welcome
> (including any jokes).
>
> Leo Sonnenberg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:06:07 -0600
From: Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Figuring Relationships
To: Leo Sonnenberg <sonnal at shaw.ca>,
ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <796o8r$1i9j0h at pd2mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
If I charted it correctly -
Your father and mother are 2nd cousins once removed.
You are your father's 3rd cousin.
You are your mother's 2nd cousin twice removed.
You and your siblings are 3rd cousins once removed.
I have no idea how common this situation is. My wife's parents
(Volga German descendants) were fourth cousins. Complicate this even
more so with her g.grandfather on her father's side marrying a 2nd
cousin and the relationships get really messy.
Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca
At 08:15 PM 01/10/2008, Leo Sonnenberg wrote:
>I recently received a list of ancestors on my father's side back to 1790
>from a cousin in Germany. I was surprised to see that my grandfather on
>my mother's side was also on the list.
>My mother is a great granddaughter to the common ancestor and my father
>is a great great grandson to the common ancestor. I am both a great
>great grandson through my mother and a great great great grandson
>through my father.
>
>My questions are - A. what cousins are my parents to each other and B.
>what am I to my distant grandfather? How would I classify myself - a
>two great grandson or a three great grandson? So who am I?
>
>Also, does this situation occur very often?
>
>Any definition of my relationship to my distant grandfather is welcome
>(including any jokes).
>
>Leo Sonnenberg
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 06:25:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Karl Krueger <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Figuring Relationships
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org, Leo Sonnenberg
<sonnal at shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <708126.74564.qm at web55304.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Leo,
Others have already explained the relationships you were wondering about.
Your other question about how often does this kind of thing happen was not
answered though. The answer to that question is this happens very often
among the German communities throughout this area. Think of? having a
restricted population of hundreds to maybe a couple thousand people from
which you can choose your spouse. In the first generation it is easy to find
an unrelated person to marry. But with each subsequent generation it will be
more difficulat to find someone completely unrelated to you. It will only
take a few generations before you find the majority of the population
interelated to each other. I have noticed this phenomenon studying EWZ
records where my parents/grandparents came from. I found so many
interrelationships betweens different branches of my distant relatives that
my family was never aware before I started building this database. Most
people I know now
through SGGEE whose ancestors came from the Lublin area are either related
to me (2nd-5th cousins) or are related to others of my relatives (1st or 2nd
cousins).
?
Secondly,?two other?drivers for marrying was who your family knew and
economic pressures to retain ownership of farm land. These factors tended
to?encourage marrying someone related to you. Cousins marrying each other
was not uncommon. In rare instances marrying an uncle/aunt or even step
daughter have been found. They were not aware of the benefit of genetic
diversity or the dangers of avoiding it. In our society we have a better
understanding of the genetic implications and thus we avoid marrying
relatives.
Karl
--- On Wed, 10/1/08, Leo Sonnenberg <sonnal at shaw.ca> wrote:
From: Leo Sonnenberg <sonnal at shaw.ca>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Figuring Relationships
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Date: Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 10:15 PM
I recently received a list of ancestors on my father's side back to 1790
from a cousin in Germany. I was surprised to see that my grandfather on
my mother's side was also on the list.
My mother is a great granddaughter to the common ancestor and my father
is a great great grandson to the common ancestor. I am both a great
great grandson through my mother and a great great great grandson
through my father.
My questions are - A. what cousins are my parents to each other and B.
what am I to my distant grandfather? How would I classify myself - a
two great grandson or a three great grandson? So who am I?
Also, does this situation occur very often?
Any definition of my relationship to my distant grandfather is welcome
(including any jokes).
Leo Sonnenberg
_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
------------------------------
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End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 65, Issue 2
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