[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Celagr = Ziegenhagen?
Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
Thu Sep 17 09:28:04 PDT 2009
Thanks for the comments received todate. To answer your questions and
comment further, the wording is "Ewa z Celagrow Ziegenhagen". The 'ow'
usually means that it is a maiden name so it is unlikely that this was a
previous married name. In addition, Ewa is 36, had 4 living children and
one deceased born when she was 24. She could have been previously married
but it does not appear likely to me. (All 5 births show the same couple.)
The writing is very clear. The 'e' could be an 'i' but there is no dot.
The 'r' could be an 'n' but it connects with the 'o' at the top which
implies an 'r' to me. I thought that reversing the 'l' and the 'g' would
give a closer sound to 'ziegen'. So it could be that the pastor made a
Ziegen = goat in German but I still find no connection to Celagr.
Sigrid, I don't fully understand your "Ceynowa: Ziegenhagen, Kr. Neustadt
(Westpr.) [this was of specific interest]" but this is likely a big part of
the puzzle. You see, there are two possible Ewa's married to a Jan
Buchholtz. The Ewa Ziegenhagen matches Ewa Celagr because the children,
village and ages match (in addition to the husband). I rejected the second
Ewa because she was married in 1832 and that was not enough time to have 4
children but her village and age are also right. However, her maiden name
is Ceinrowa. Does your comment above mean that Ceynowa=Ceinrowa=Ziegenhagen
in which case these two Ewa's would be the same and my Ewa Celagr would then
have 4 children but only got married in 1832 which means that the children
are from a previous marriage but her previous husband would have had to have
had the same name. Talk about strange.
So, what is the significance of Ceynowa: Ziegenhagen? This puzzle is really
interesting for me.
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:06:41 -0500
From: "Earl.Schultz" <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Celagr = Ziegenhagen?
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <0B37BAB896BD4083BCE7941410D9CA5D at Desktop>
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I found an 1834 death of an Ewa Buchholtz, married to a Jan Buchholtz and
her maiden name was Celagrow or maybe Celagnow (left the 'ow' in). She had
4 children and lived in Michalki. Since I have all the Michalki records in
my database I checked to see if she was already there. There were 2 Ewa's
married to a Jan Buchholtz and the only one that matches is an Ewa
Ziegenhagen. The names of all 4 children match up between the two Ewa's,
their ages match and the place of residence matches. Looks quite certain to
me that they are the same person. How does one go from Celagr to
Ziegenhagen? I don't know. Checked with SGGEE's surname list and this one
is not there. Can anyone confirm that these are one and the same name and
maybe explain the connection.
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:37:50 -0500
From: Sigrid Pohl Perry <perry1121 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Celagr = Ziegenhagen?
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org, "Earl.Schultz"
<Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <4AB23BAE.2000306 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
You might look more closely at the handwriting and see if any of the
following suggestions provide more clarity. I would say there is a
connection between the root of Ziegenhagen or Ziegenhagel (a variation
I've seen in the Lublin records) and the Polish "cegla": both relate to
bricks and brick making.
Ziegel = brick
Ziegler = brick maker
Cegla = brick
Ceglarz = brick maker
Glina = clay
I also found the following on a site which provided information on
village name changes in the Westpreussen area:
After the occupation of Poland by the German Reich, the Polish County
"Seekreis" (Sea County = Morski powiat) with its administration in
Gdynia was renamed to "Neustadt i. Westpr." and the administration was
reestablished in the town of Neustadt. [What follows is a list of the
Ceynowa: Ziegenhagen, Kr. Neustadt (Westpr.) [this was of specific interest]
Perhaps Dr. Frank Stewner, who has worked with locations in this area,
can offer some more definite comments about the roots of this name change.
Sigrid Pohl Perry
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