[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records from the Evangelical Augsburg Consistory Council
Karl Krueger
dabookk54 at yahoo.com
Tue Jul 22 08:13:43 PDT 2014
Dear Peter,
Earl is correct that the only way to get an answer you are looking for is DNA testing. But you should know the limitations of this testing make sure you are comparing your DNA with the right descendants of August Daubler. Since your ancestor is a female you cannot have any Y chromosome markers from August. Mitochondrial markers will also not help since they would come only from the full female lineages tracing back to Wilhelmine Hein.
You will have to use a service like 23andme that looks at markers on all 23 chormosomes. Since you will not know what markers may have been contributed by Wilhelmine passed down to Dorothea anyone you compare with should not be other descendants of Wilhelmine. You really need to compare your DNA with that of Wilhelm's descendants who came from his divorced wife. Keeping in mind that with each generation only 50% of the genes get transferred to the next generation this will show what you are fighting against to try and establish your lieage with August. You just hope some of those critical markers from August were carried on in both your lineage and those you compare with. The markers are not solid evidence but only provide an estimated probability that you are related. If the probability comes out low that also does not mean you are not related - this false positive result could be accounted for by the fact different genes from August were passed down
through your lieages.
Karl
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 7/22/14, Peter <chamdo4ever at gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records from the Evangelical Augsburg Consistory Council
To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
Cc: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2014, 7:43 AM
Thank you tremendously Earl, for this
very insightful note. Agreed --
DNA testing does seem like a good way to proceed, and
thankfully I
think I know two people who could contribute the necessary
samples.
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 12:40 AM, Earl Schultz
<Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
wrote:
> In my experience, the illegitimate child takes the
mother's surname but I believe I have seen a few cases where
the child takes a witness' name and I assume that means the
child was adopted or that the witness was the real
father. One of my distant relatives in the 1800s lived
unmarried with his spouse and he fathered many children with
this woman and each church record said that the child was
illegitimate but the children all took the father's name.
>
> The divorces I've seen were likely the result of a
childless marriage as there were no children prior to the
divorce but children from one of the spouses after the
divorce. I've also seen one married man who must have
been separated from his wife but unable to divorce who
fathered a few children with another woman. The
children took his surname but it was not until wife #1 died
that we realized this was one man and not two different
men.
>
> This doesn't "cut to the core" of what you are looking
for but I would assume that the child would retain the
surname of the mother even after marrying the father of the
child. I did see at least one case like that.
However, the man was not divorced but rather was single at
the time of the birth of the illegitimate child, and then
married the mother.
>
> If you find records from the Consistory Council you may
not get the answers you are looking for. My maternal
great grandmother (probably adoptive) was divorced in 1902
and I received the divorce papers attached to the marriage
document from the Archives. My Russian translator said
that the divorce was "due to the fault of the husband" and
it appears that he went to America and abandoned his
family. However, no real reason was given in the
document.
>
> It seems to me that this may best be solved by DNA, if
you can compare the DNA of a descendent of that couple with
the DNA of a descendent of the illegitimate child. It
would be easier if both lines were male but you'd still get
an idea using autosomal DNA.
>
> Isn't genealogy interesting...when I started this hobby
I thought my family was going to be pretty boring...NOT.
>
> Earl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter [mailto:chamdo4ever at gmail.com]
> Sent: July 21, 2014 9:36 PM
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
> Cc: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records from
the Evangelical Augsburg Consistory Council
>
> Thank you very much Earl. Yes, I most definitely will
let the listserve know if I make any progress.
>
> In a slight digression, in that you are familiar with
divorces near Plock, are you able to offer any insight into
the legal twists of naming conventions of children born out
of wedlock, especially when the Mother of such a child then
marries a divorced man? That really cuts to the core of what
I'm trying to find out. In fact, you can read my earlier
post to the listserve on that subject here:
>
> http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/2014-July/027453.html
>
> In attempting to chase down this record of the
dissolved marriage, what I'm really trying to establish is
if it mentions that August Daubler committed adultery with
Wilhelmine Hein (the woman he went on to marry), and could
conceivably be the father of Wilhelmine Hein's illegitimate
daughter (my ancestor) who was born a few years earlier and
named Dorothea Hein due to the Father being "unknown."
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Peter Schmidt
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 11:06 PM, Earl Schultz <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
wrote:
>> Peter, I don't have an answer for you but I have
noticed quite a few divorces in the Michalki records, near
Plock, and I wrote an article about them for the SGGEE
Journal (Sep 2009). I am interested if you track these
down. I would approach the archives in Lipno and/or
Plock and ask if they have these records. They do
accept English emails but will reply in Polish. Also,
I would try the Evangelical-Augsburg Church and you may want
to start with the Berlin Evangelical-Lutheran Archives
(EZAB) and they also accept English emails. Other than
that, I can't help but I would appreciate you letting the
listserve or me know what answers you receive.
>>
>> Earl
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 12:41:01 -0400
>> From: Peter <chamdo4ever at gmail.com>
>> To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
>> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records from
the Evangelical
>> Augsburg
Consistory Council in Tsarist Poyavskoi
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> <CALr1thUbh--psugHy_BJQCTtzqUusBxVivWx3R+iDpGQOZGfFA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Does anyone here know how I could track down the
record of the judgement of the Evangelical Augsburg
Consistory Council in Tsarist Poyavskoi regarding the
dissolvement of a marriage in Plock in 1869?
>>
>> Would such a record still exist? How can I find out
and begin the process of tracking down such a record?
>>
>> Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Peter Schmidt
>>
>>
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