[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records from the Evangelical Augsburg Consistory Council

Karl Krueger dabookk54 at yahoo.com
Tue Jul 22 08:17:33 PDT 2014

OOPs, I made one slight error corrected in CAPS.
 Dear Peter,
 Earl is correct that the only way to get an
 answer you are looking for is DNA testing. But you should
 know the limitations of this testing make sure you are
 comparing your DNA with the right descendants of August
 Daubler. Since your ancestor is a female you cannot have any
 Y chromosome markers from August. Mitochondrial markers will
 also not help since they would come only from the full
 female lineages tracing back to Wilhelmine Hein.
 You will have to use a service
 like 23andme that looks at markers on all 23 chormosomes.
 Since you will not know what markers may have been
 contributed by Wilhelmine passed down to Dorothea anyone you
 compare with should not be other descendants of Wilhelmine.
 You really need to compare your DNA with that of
 AUGUST's descendants who came from his divorced wife.
 Keeping in mind that with each generation only 50% of the
 genes get transferred to the next generation this will show
 what you are fighting against to try and establish your
 lieage with August. You just hope some of those critical
 markers from August were carried on in both your lineage and
 those you compare with. The markers are not solid evidence
 but only provide an estimated probability that you are
 related. If the probability comes out low that also does not
 mean you are not related - this false positive result could
 be accounted for by the fact different genes from August
 were passed down
  through your lieages.
 On Tue, 7/22/14, Peter <chamdo4ever at gmail.com>
  Subject: Re:
 [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records from the
 Evangelical    Augsburg Consistory Council
  To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
  Cc: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
  Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2014, 7:43 AM
  Thank you tremendously Earl,
 for this
  very insightful note. Agreed --
  DNA testing does seem like a good way to
 proceed, and
  thankfully I
 think I know two people who could contribute the
  On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 12:40 AM, Earl
  <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
  > In my experience,
 the illegitimate child takes the
 mother's surname but I believe I have seen a few cases
  the child takes a witness' name
 and I assume that means the
  child was
 adopted or that the witness was the real
 father.  One of my distant relatives in the 1800s lived
  unmarried with his spouse and he fathered many
 children with
  this woman and each church
 record said that the child was
 but the children all took the father's name.
  > The divorces
 I've seen were likely the result of a
 childless marriage as there were no children prior to the
  divorce but children from one of the spouses
 after the
  divorce.  I've also seen one
 married man who must have
  been separated
 from his wife but unable to divorce who
 fathered a few children with another woman.  The
  children took his surname but it was not until
 wife #1 died
  that we realized this was one
 man and not two different
  > This doesn't
 "cut to the core" of what you are looking
  for but I would assume that the child would
 retain the
  surname of the mother even after
 marrying the father of the
  child.  I did
 see at least one case like that. 
 the man was not divorced but rather was single at
  the time of the birth of the illegitimate
 child, and then
  married the mother.
  > If you find records
 from the Consistory Council you may
  not get
 the answers you are looking for.  My maternal
  great grandmother (probably adoptive) was
 divorced in 1902
  and I received the divorce
 papers attached to the marriage
 from the Archives.  My Russian translator said
  that the divorce was "due to the fault of
 the husband" and
  it appears that he
 went to America and abandoned his
 However, no real reason was given in the
  > It
 seems to me that this may best be solved by DNA, if
  you can compare the DNA of a descendent of
 that couple with
  the DNA of a descendent of
 the illegitimate child.  It
  would be
 easier if both lines were male but you'd still get
  an idea using autosomal DNA.
  > Isn't genealogy
 interesting...when I started this hobby
 thought my family was going to be pretty boring...NOT.
  > Earl
  > -----Original
  > From: Peter [mailto:chamdo4ever at gmail.com]
  > Sent: July 21, 2014 9:36 PM
  > To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
  > Cc: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
  > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]
 Seeking Records from
  the Evangelical
 Augsburg Consistory Council
  > Thank you very much Earl. Yes, I most
 definitely will
  let the listserve know if I
 make any progress.
 > In a slight digression, in that you are familiar
  divorces near Plock, are you able to
 offer any insight into
  the legal twists of
 naming conventions of children born out
 wedlock, especially when the Mother of such a child then
  marries a divorced man? That really cuts to
 the core of what
  I'm trying to find
 out. In fact, you can read my earlier
 to the listserve on that subject here:
  > http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/2014-July/027453.html
  > In attempting to
 chase down this record of the
 marriage, what I'm really trying to establish is
  if it mentions that August Daubler committed
 adultery with
  Wilhelmine Hein (the woman he
 went on to marry), and could
  conceivably be
 the father of Wilhelmine Hein's illegitimate
  daughter (my ancestor) who was born a few
 years earlier and
  named Dorothea Hein due
 to the Father being "unknown."
  > Many thanks,
  > Peter Schmidt
  > On Mon, Jul
 21, 2014 at 11:06 PM, Earl Schultz <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
  >> Peter, I
 don't have an answer for you but I have
 noticed quite a few divorces in the Michalki records,
  Plock, and I wrote an article about
 them for the SGGEE
  Journal (Sep 2009).  I
 am interested if you track these
  down.  I
 would approach the archives in Lipno and/or
 Plock and ask if they have these records.  They do
  accept English emails but will reply in
 Polish.  Also,
  I would try the
 Evangelical-Augsburg Church and you may want
  to start with the Berlin Evangelical-Lutheran
  (EZAB) and they also accept
 English emails.  Other than
  that, I
 can't help but I would appreciate you letting the
  listserve or me know what answers you
  >> Message:
  >> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 12:41:01
  >> From: Peter <chamdo4ever at gmail.com>
  >> To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
  >> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]
 Seeking Records from
  the Evangelical
  >>         Augsburg
  Consistory Council in Tsarist Poyavskoi
  >> Message-ID:
 <CALr1thUbh--psugHy_BJQCTtzqUusBxVivWx3R+iDpGQOZGfFA at mail.gmail.com>
  >> Content-Type: text/plain;
 >> Does anyone here know how I could track down the
  record of the judgement of the Evangelical
  Consistory Council in Tsarist
 Poyavskoi regarding the
  dissolvement of a
 marriage in Plock in 1869?
  >> Would such a record still exist? How
 can I find out
  and begin the process of
 tracking down such a record?
  >> Any help or guidance would be greatly
 >> Many thanks,
  >> Peter Schmidt
  >> Subject: Digest Footer
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