[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records from the Evangelical Augsburg Consistory Council

Karl Krueger dabookk54 at yahoo.com
Tue Jul 22 09:26:02 PDT 2014


Peter,
This sounds fine. I assumed you were a descendant of Dorothea Hein but I guess I was wrong. It sounds like you will only compare those two who would actually half-2nd cousins once removed. 

I looked into the coverage 23andMe provides which is about 933K SNPs (markers) which is very good. I have seen that estimates of 300K-600K SNPs is enough to confer identities close to one individual so among this large pile of data to be generated hopefully something will show up.
Karl
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 7/22/14, Peter <chamdo4ever at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records from the Evangelical Augsburg Consistory Council
 To: "Karl Krueger" <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
 Cc: "SGGEE" <ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org>, Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
 Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2014, 11:31 AM
 
 Thank you very much Karl.
 Your correction is noted and your advice is
 very much appreciated.
 
 As it stands, I think my family can secure a
 DNA sample from someone
 who is Daubler's
 known Great-Grand-daughter by his first wife (though
 she is very much older and time is of the
 essence).
 
 Also, a sample
 can likely be secured from someone who is hopefully
 August Daubler's Great-Grandson via
 Wilhelmine Hein and her daughter
 Dorothea
 Hein.
 
 Hence, the two
 samples would be obtained from two people who's
 relationship is second cousins, *IF* August
 Daubler is Dorothea Hein's
 Father.
 
 
 
 
 On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Karl Krueger
 <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
 wrote:
 > OOPs, I made one slight error
 corrected in CAPS.
 >
 >  Dear Peter,
 >  Earl
 is correct that the only way to get an
 >  answer you are looking for is DNA
 testing. But you should
 >  know the
 limitations of this testing make sure you are
 >  comparing your DNA with the right
 descendants of August
 >  Daubler. Since
 your ancestor is a female you cannot have any
 >  Y chromosome markers from August.
 Mitochondrial markers will
 >  also not
 help since they would come only from the full
 >  female lineages tracing back to
 Wilhelmine Hein.
 >
 > 
 You will have to use a service
 >  like
 23andme that looks at markers on all 23 chormosomes.
 >  Since you will not know what markers may
 have been
 >  contributed by Wilhelmine
 passed down to Dorothea anyone you
 > 
 compare with should not be other descendants of
 Wilhelmine.
 >  You really need to
 compare your DNA with that of
 > 
 AUGUST's descendants who came from his divorced wife.
 >  Keeping in mind that with each
 generation only 50% of the
 >  genes get
 transferred to the next generation this will show
 >  what you are fighting against to try and
 establish your
 >  lieage with August.
 You just hope some of those critical
 > 
 markers from August were carried on in both your lineage
 and
 >  those you compare with. The
 markers are not solid evidence
 >  but
 only provide an estimated probability that you are
 >  related. If the probability comes out
 low that also does not
 >  mean you are
 not related - this false positive result could
 >  be accounted for by the fact different
 genes from August
 >  were passed down
 >   through your lieages.
 >  Karl
 >
 > 
 --------------------------------------------
 >  On Tue, 7/22/14, Peter <chamdo4ever at gmail.com>
 >  wrote:
 >
 >   Subject: Re:
 >  [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Records
 from the
 >  Evangelical    Augsburg
 Consistory Council
 >   To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
 >   Cc: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
 >   Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2014,
 7:43 AM
 >
 >   Thank you tremendously
 Earl,
 >  for this
 >   very insightful note. Agreed
 --
 >   DNA testing does seem
 like a good way to
 >  proceed, and
 >   thankfully I
 >
 >  think I know two
 people who could contribute the
 > 
 necessary
 >   samples.
 >
 >   On Tue,
 Jul 22, 2014 at 12:40 AM, Earl
 > 
 Schultz
 >   <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
 >   wrote:
 >   > In my experience,
 >  the illegitimate child takes the
 >
 >  mother's
 surname but I believe I have seen a few cases
 >  where
 >   the child takes a
 witness' name
 >  and I assume that
 means the
 >   child was
 >  adopted or that the witness was the
 real
 >
 >  father. 
 One of my distant relatives in the 1800s lived
 >   unmarried with his spouse and
 he fathered many
 >  children with
 >   this woman and each church
 >  record said that the child was
 >   illegitimate
 >  but the children all took the
 father's name.
 >   >
 >   > The divorces
 >  I've seen were likely the result of
 a
 >
 >  childless
 marriage as there were no children prior to the
 >   divorce but children from one
 of the spouses
 >  after the
 >   divorce.  I've also seen
 one
 >  married man who must have
 >   been separated
 >  from his wife but unable to divorce
 who
 >
 >  fathered a
 few children with another woman.  The
 >   children took his surname but
 it was not until
 >  wife #1 died
 >   that we realized this was
 one
 >  man and not two different
 >   men.
 >   >
 >   > This doesn't
 >  "cut to the core" of what you
 are looking
 >   for but I
 would assume that the child would
 > 
 retain the
 >   surname of the
 mother even after
 >  marrying the father
 of the
 >   child.  I did
 >  see at least one case like that.
 >   However,
 >  the man was not divorced but rather was
 single at
 >   the time of the
 birth of the illegitimate
 >  child, and
 then
 >   married the
 mother.
 >   >
 >   > If you find records
 >  from the Consistory Council you may
 >   not get
 >  the answers you are looking for.  My
 maternal
 >   great grandmother
 (probably adoptive) was
 >  divorced in
 1902
 >   and I received the
 divorce
 >  papers attached to the
 marriage
 >   document
 >  from the Archives.  My Russian
 translator said
 >   that the
 divorce was "due to the fault of
 > 
 the husband" and
 >   it
 appears that he
 >  went to America and
 abandoned his
 >   family.
 >  However, no real reason was given in
 the
 >
 >  document.
 >   >
 >   > It
 >  seems to me that this may best be solved
 by DNA, if
 >   you can compare
 the DNA of a descendent of
 >  that
 couple with
 >   the DNA of a
 descendent of
 >  the illegitimate
 child.  It
 >   would be
 >  easier if both lines were male but
 you'd still get
 >   an
 idea using autosomal DNA.
 >
 >  >
 >   > Isn't genealogy
 >  interesting...when I started this
 hobby
 >   I
 >  thought my family was going to be pretty
 boring...NOT.
 >   >
 >   > Earl
 >   >
 >   > -----Original
 >  Message-----
 >   > From: Peter [mailto:chamdo4ever at gmail.com]
 >   > Sent: July 21, 2014 9:36
 PM
 >   > To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
 >   > Cc: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net
 >   > Subject: Re:
 [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]
 >  Seeking Records
 from
 >   the Evangelical
 >  Augsburg Consistory Council
 >   >
 >   > Thank you very much
 Earl. Yes, I most
 >  definitely will
 >   let the listserve know if
 I
 >  make any progress.
 >   >
 >
 >  > In a slight digression, in that you
 are familiar
 >  with
 >   divorces near Plock, are you
 able to
 >  offer any insight into
 >   the legal twists of
 >  naming conventions of children born
 out
 >   of
 >  wedlock, especially when the Mother of
 such a child then
 >   marries
 a divorced man? That really cuts to
 > 
 the core of what
 >   I'm
 trying to find
 >  out. In fact, you can
 read my earlier
 >   post
 >  to the listserve on that subject
 here:
 >
 >  >
 >   > http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/2014-July/027453.html
 >   >
 >   > In attempting to
 >  chase down this record of the
 >   dissolved
 >  marriage, what I'm really trying to
 establish is
 >   if it
 mentions that August Daubler committed
 >  adultery with
 >   Wilhelmine Hein (the woman
 he
 >  went on to marry), and could
 >   conceivably be
 >  the father of Wilhelmine Hein's
 illegitimate
 >   daughter (my
 ancestor) who was born a few
 >  years
 earlier and
 >   named Dorothea
 Hein due
 >  to the Father being
 "unknown."
 >
 >  >
 >   > Many thanks,
 >
 >  >
 >   > Peter Schmidt
 >
 >  >
 >   >
 >   > On Mon, Jul
 >  21, 2014 at 11:06 PM, Earl Schultz
 <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
 >   wrote:
 >   >> Peter, I
 >  don't have an answer for you but I
 have
 >
 >  noticed
 quite a few divorces in the Michalki records,
 >  near
 >   Plock, and I wrote an article
 about
 >  them for the SGGEE
 >   Journal (Sep 2009).  I
 >  am interested if you track these
 >   down.  I
 >  would approach the archives in Lipno
 and/or
 >
 >  Plock and
 ask if they have these records.  They do
 >   accept English emails but
 will reply in
 >  Polish.  Also,
 >   I would try the
 >  Evangelical-Augsburg Church and you may
 want
 >   to start with the
 Berlin Evangelical-Lutheran
 > 
 Archives
 >   (EZAB) and they
 also accept
 >  English emails.  Other
 than
 >   that, I
 >  can't help but I would appreciate
 you letting the
 >   listserve
 or me know what answers you
 > 
 receive.
 >   >>
 >   >>
 >  Earl
 >   >>
 >   >>
 >
 > 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 >   >>
 >   >> Message:
 >  1
 >   >> Date: Mon, 21 Jul
 2014 12:41:01
 >  -0400
 >   >> From: Peter <chamdo4ever at gmail.com>
 >   >> To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
 >   >> Subject:
 [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]
 >  Seeking Records
 from
 >   the Evangelical
 >   >>     
    Augsburg
 >   Consistory Council in Tsarist
 Poyavskoi
 >   >>
 Message-ID:
 >
 > 
 >>
 >   >>
 > 
 <CALr1thUbh--psugHy_BJQCTtzqUusBxVivWx3R+iDpGQOZGfFA at mail.gmail.com>
 >   >> Content-Type:
 text/plain;
 >  charset=UTF-8
 >   >>
 >
 >  >> Does
 anyone here know how I could track down the
 >   record of the judgement of
 the Evangelical
 >  Augsburg
 >   Consistory Council in
 Tsarist
 >  Poyavskoi regarding the
 >   dissolvement of a
 >  marriage in Plock in 1869?
 >   >>
 >   >> Would such a record
 still exist? How
 >  can I find out
 >   and begin the process of
 >  tracking down such a record?
 >   >>
 >   >> Any help or guidance
 would be greatly
 >  appreciated.
 >   >>
 >
 >  >> Many
 thanks,
 >   >>
 >   >> Peter Schmidt
 >
 >  >>
 >   >>
 >   >>
 >  ------------------------------
 >   >>
 >   >> Subject: Digest
 Footer
 >   >>
 >   >>
 > 
 _______________________________________________
 >   >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia
 mailing list,
 >  hosted by the:
 >   >> Society for
 German
 >  Genealogy in Eastern
 >   Europe  http://www.sggee.org
 >
 >  >> Mailing
 list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
 >   >>
 >   >>
 >   >>
 ------------------------------
 >   >>
 >   >> End of
 >  Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 134,
 Issue
 >
 >  14
 >   >>
 >
 > 
 ****************************************************
 >   >>
 >   >>
 > 
 _______________________________________________
 >   >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia
 site list
 >   >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia at sggee.org
 >   >> https://www.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
 >   >
 >
 > 
 _______________________________________________
 >   Ger-Poland-Volhynia site
 list
 >
 >  Ger-Poland-Volhynia at sggee.org
 >   https://www.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
 >
 



More information about the Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list