[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 136, Issue 9
BruceB2332 at aol.com
BruceB2332 at aol.com
Thu Sep 18 16:58:26 PDT 2014
I am interested in it. How much is postage to 53027?
In a message dated 9/18/2014 2:00:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
ger-poland-volhynia-request at sggee.org writes:
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Today's Topics:
1. Free book (jhelbrec xplornet.ca)
2. Re: a few miscellaneous questions (Joanna Hintz)
3. Other online church records (CWW) (Paul Rakow)
4. Manitoba, Steinbach (Darlene Clark)
5. Re: a few miscellaneous questions (Paul Rakow)
6. Re: Other online church records (CWW) - PS (Paul Rakow)
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 18:14:10 -0600
From: "jhelbrec xplornet.ca" <jhelbrec at xplornet.ca>
To: "ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org" <ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Free book
Message-ID:
<CANf_8RX-Qn4jNiprVq+hyr999sDUMqnYgj9AASUmR7CuS1i3pA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I have the book The Long Walk, the true story of a trek to freedom by
Slavomir Rawicz. If anyone is interested in it I will give it to you. Just
pay the postage.
Thank you Jean Helbrecht
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 07:14:31 +0200
From: Joanna Hintz <hintzjoanna at googlemail.com>
To: DLPratt123 at aol.com
Cc: SGGEE <ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] a few miscellaneous questions
Message-ID:
<CA+hKH=K_y+COpBUmr+3+gxdnJfPGWddZ2Os1GpDRWyFQtKWcTg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Dan,
Glusk is also in Poland and not in Volhynia. Sorry. Yes, the writing is
very
difficult. Could it be Gruszewka?
Here is the link to the map at Wolhynien.de, north of Natalja and south of
Berezno.
http://www.wolhynien.de/images/Lueck1927_gr.jpg
Ursula
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:48:24 +0100 (BST)
From: "Paul Rakow" <paul.rakow at cantab.net>
To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Other online church records (CWW)
Message-ID: <53234.10.0.16.60.1411044504.squirrel at www.cantab.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
I want to tell you about the CWW, another collection of Polish
church records that have started appearing on-line. These are
administrative records, NOT records of birth, marriages and deaths,
but they are still interesting for family history. They often include
lists of all the families in the congregation, so they can act as
census substitutes. I don't think I've seen them mentioned here
before.
I first saw these records when I visited the AGAD archive
in Warsaw in 2010, but now you can see many of these CWW records
without leaving home.
The inventory page is at
http://www.agad.gov.pl/inwentarze/cww190x.xml
<http://www.agad.gov.pl/inwentarze/cww190x.xml>
It's a long page, and takes a while to load.
As an example of what you might find, here is a list of
contributors in 1849 to the church funds in the parish Kozienice,
near Radom.
<http://www.agad.gov.pl/CWW/Galeria%20internetowa/PL_1_190_1133/pages/PL_1_1
90_1133_0038.htm>
(I hope the links survive being e-mailed.)
---
Here is a report from 1804 on the school in Gross Bruzyca near
Lodz, perhaps you can find out whether your ancestor was a good
student or not. Also, some school records give ages and the
father's name, so they can establish relationships and birth details.
<http://www.agad.gov.pl/CWW/Galeria%20internetowa/PL_1_190_1232/page/PL_1_19
0_1232_0287.htm>
Here is a list from 1800 of the founding members of the
Gross Bruzyca congregation. This was initially a rural congregation,
the list tells how much land each member cultivated.
<http://www.agad.gov.pl/CWW/Galeria%20internetowa/PL_1_190_1232/page/PL_1_19
0_1232_0010.htm>
The index list of parishes is here
http://www.agad.gov.pl/inwentarze/cww190x.xml
It looks like the items up to sygnatur 1240 are on-line,
those after are not yet.
Background:
Separation of church and state wasn't in the constitution
of the Russian Partition of Poland - several government
departments kept an eye on all the religious organisations
in Poland.
Fond 190: Centralne Wladze Wyznaniowe Krolestwa Polskiego (CWW)
Central Religious Authorities of the Kingdom of Poland
The most useful files I found in Warsaw were reports on the
administration of the Protestant parishes in 19th century
Congress Poland. This includes things like the calling of Pastors,
the sacking of misbehaving Pastors, building of churches, detailed
inventories of church property, and accounts.
Most of the first 1000 items in this Fond/Zespol concern Catholic
parishes, monasteries, nunneries etc., then from
sygnatur 1035 to 1402 a collection of files on Protestant parishes,
followed by a few files concerning a Mohammedan congregations,
and then a large number of Jewish synagogues.
At present the on-line material is from Lutheran congregations,
there are also CWW files concerning Mennonites, Moravians, and
Evangelical-Reformed Protestants, but these aren't on line yet.
Protestant Church Tax
Between the late 1820s and about 1850 the income side of the
accounts was from a Protestant Church "Income Tax" on the members.
The tax lists were updated every three years. They give a list
of the families contributing to the church, giving occupation
and tax class. It gives an idea of how much money your family was
making --- I was surprised that my Huebner ancestors in Ozorkow
were in the second-highest tax band, so they must have been making
quite a good living as cloth-makers; many other cloth-makers were
in the lowest tax band, class 5. Some congregations also list the
poor families who paid no tax; other parishes just miss them out
from the list. Sometimes the list says how many souls were in
each family. It looks like these tax lists exist for most
Lutheran parishes.
Gross Bruzyca Parish CWW 1232
Howard Krushel asked me to keep an eye open for any records
from Gross Bruzyca parish, the first Lutheran church in the Lodz
area. I found a thick volume (409 pages) of files concerning the
Gross Bruzyca parish 1800-1822. This includes a list of all the
members of the founding congregation, and the call of the first
Pastor, with a list of the congregation members who made their
mark on it. Possibly the most interesting find were the early
school reports. (Howard's ancestor Gottlieb Krushel was an
outstanding pupil, who worked very hard).
=====
Protestants living in Lodz CWW 1980
(not yet on line)
Another interesting find were some lists prepared by the Lodz
magistrates of the Protestants in Lodz, 1854-1863 (Full lists,
1854, 1855, 1856 and 1860 - fragments early 60s.) As well as
the town itself, the lists include a few of the nearby villages,
in particular Nowasolna/Neu Sulzfeld, Lagiewniki, Chojny,
Sikawa, Stoki
Lists give the head of the family, and the number of
children in each family.
1854 1302 families
1855 1569
1856 1477
1860 1181
Call number CWW 1980, length 533 pages
====
I hope some of you will find this useful. These files are
more work than ordinary church books. Once again, you are not
going to find many birth, marriage and death records here.
(There do seem to be some records about divorces and about
marriages that needed special dispensations from the church
authorities in Warsaw). But you might still find interesting
things about your family.
Good Luck!
Paul Rakow
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 11:09:58 -0700
From: Darlene Clark <darlene.clark at hotmail.ca>
To: "ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org" <ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Manitoba, Steinbach
Message-ID: <BLU182-W3229ECFC8501DF02DE36BF80B70 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Administrator, I am not sure how this website works. I registered and
have an account now, but I'm trying to respond to thread and don't know how:
[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Manitoba, Steinbach
Mhairi and Cathy,
I have a very incomplete family tree and I think you may have information
that I can use to fill it in. My Grandmother is Myrtle (Micki) Lillian
Schmitke. She was born in Steinbach, Manitoba. Her parents were Johanna
Stark of Prussia and Gustav Schmitke of Prussia. I have information of
Myrtle's marriage and children (they are my aunts, uncles and my mother). I am
looking for information on Johanna and Gustav so I can fill in the earlier
years of my family tree. Please email me at Darlene.Clark at Hotmail.ca.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 19:14:07 +0100 (BST)
From: "Paul Rakow" <paul.rakow at cantab.net>
To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] a few miscellaneous questions
Message-ID: <55173.10.0.16.60.1411064047.squirrel at www.cantab.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Hello Dan,
I haven't seen answers yet to your final two questions,
so here's my thoughts.
Pinsky Guberg is probably the province (gubernia) Pinsk.
T vs TH doesn't mean much in German - both sound the same.
There has been a trend to spell more words which used to have
a TH with just a T - for example, Thal (a valley) has changed
to Tal.
Paul Rakow
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: DLPratt123 at aol.com
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] a few miscellaneous questions
>
>
>
> Does the place name "Pinsky Guberg" ring a bell?
>
>
> Some surnames, such as Mut/Muth or Kujat/Kujath, come with an optional
> h. Is anything in particular going on here?
>
>
> Dan Pratt
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 19:34:14 +0100 (BST)
From: "Paul Rakow" <paul.rakow at cantab.net>
To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Other online church records (CWW) -
PS
Message-ID: <47314.10.0.16.60.1411065254.squirrel at www.cantab.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Hello All,
It looks like some of the long links didn't get through
I'll try sending the links a little differently, and see
if that works any better.
Paul Rakow
=====
Main index page:
http://www.agad.gov.pl/inwentarze/cww190x.xml
<http://www.agad.gov.pl/inwentarze/cww190x.xml>
It's a long page, and takes a while to load.
As an example of what you might find, here is a list of
contributors in 1849 to the church funds in the parish Kozienice, near
Radom.
<http://www.agad.gov.pl/CWW/Galeria%20internetowa/PL_1_190_1133/pages/PL_1_1
90_1133_0038.htm>
<http://www.agad.gov.pl/CWW/Galeria
internetowa/PL_1_190_1133/pages/PL_1_190_1133_0038.htm>
(I hope the links survive being e-mailed.)
Here is a report from 1804 on the school in Gross Bruzyca near
Lodz, perhaps you can find out whether your ancestor was a good
student or not. Also, some school records give ages and the father's name,
so they can establish relationships and birth details.
<http://www.agad.gov.pl/CWW/Galeria%20internetowa/PL_1_190_1232/pages/PL_1_1
90_1232_0287.htm>
<http://www.agad.gov.pl/CWW/Galeria
internetowa/PL_1_190_1232/pages/PL_1_190_1232_0287.htm>
Here is a list from 1800 of the founding members of the
Gross Bruzyca congregation. This was initially a rural congregation,
the list tells how much land each member cultivated.
<http://www.agad.gov.pl/CWW/Galeria%20internetowa/PL_1_190_1232/pages/PL_1_1
90_1232_0010.htm>
<http://www.agad.gov.pl/CWW/Galeria
internetowa/PL_1_190_1232/pages/PL_1_190_1232_0010.htm>
The index list of parishes is here
http://www.agad.gov.pl/inwentarze/cww190x.xml
It looks like the items up to sygnatur 1240 are on-line,
those after are not yet.
[snip]
----
------------------------------
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