[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location

[Jerry Frank]

Jutta,

Please understand that I did not dispute the 
interpretation of one for whom Polish is the 
native language.  I simply reinterpreted the term 
in context of usage on the map.

I also did not rely solely on GOOGLE.  If you 
would have referred also to the on line Polish 
cookbook as I did, you would see that the word 
refers very specifically to the variety of plum 
known as the Hungarian plum.  Specific quote:

"We~gierki - Known in Polish as Hungarian plums, 
they are widely used in Polish cookery . . ."

My dictionary also shows that the more generic 
Polish word for plum is either s~liwka, rodzynka, or gratka.

And finally, I am also relying on the map itself 
which shows adjectival forms as follows (the 
mailing list might not see the italics but the 
last word in each term is on the map in italics):

Kol. Wia~czemin Niemieckie

Wia~czemin Polskie

Wia~czemin We~gierki

Wymysle Polskie

Wymysle Niemieckie

Kol. Nowosiodly We~gierki   or perhaps  Swiniary We~gierki

Niemieckie = German
Polskie = Polish
No reason not to assume that We~gierki = Hungarian (in my opinion)

While the italics on the map are not exclusive to 
the descriptive word, I believe that is the implication here.

It is not necessary for the term to apply solely 
to "Hungarian females" as settlers in this 
area.  The term used in my dictionary to 
generically describe Hungarians is We~gierski 
(note the s).  Anyone who has studied Polish maps 
as I have will know even Polish map markers are 
inconsistent in agreeing on endings of many place 
names.  Minor changes through dropping or adding 
a letter can make a significant difference in the meaning.

Note that in other regions, especially around 
Lipno but in other places as well, there are 
place names given with the descriptive adder 
"Romunki" or similar which, according to well 
known Polish language expert Fred Hoffmann, implies Rumanian origins.

Mr. Hoffmann is well respected in Poland and 
elsewhere as a Polish etymologist.  I will 
forward the question to him for his 
interpretation without expressing my opinion.  I 
will report his interpretation to the list and, 
if I am wrong, I will certainly apologize.


Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca



At 05:01 AM 17/01/2009, Jutta Dennerlein wrote:
>Jerry,
>
>I'm not sure if the results of an English Google research should be
>used to 'outnumber' the experience of a native speaker of Polish
>(Anna) !
>The truth is not the result of 'what most people think' or 'what has
>been published most times'.
>
>Especially not if the Google results mainly turn up 'Hungarian Plum
>Dumplings' and 'Hungarian Plum pox virus isolates'.
>In both cases 'Hungarian' does not relate to the Plum part of the
>term.
>
>My Polish-German dictionary shows two meanings for Wêgierka: 1.
>Ungarin [Hungarian female], 2. Hauspflaume, Zwetschge.
>Zwetschgen are exactly the kind of plums which the Niedrunger grew and
>dried for selling as prunes.
>
>But I really would like to hear more about these Hungarian females
>settling in the swamps of the Vistula.
>Probably a matriarchy society - remains of the very old cultures of
>Europe ! Let's Google for it ...
>
>Sorry for the cynicism
>
>Jutta Dennerlein
>www.upstreamvistula.org
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On
> > Behalf Of Jerry Frank
> > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:50 AM
> > To: zglinka at wp.pl; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location
> >
> >
> > We have an 1837 map that shows it in the expected
> > location.  In both cases it shows We~gierka (with
> > the diacritic hook below the first e).  My Polish
> > / English dictionary shows We~gierski = of Hungary or Hungarian.
> >
> > Your application of the word is probably correct
> > for the Hungarian Plum, a type of plum that can
> > be readily researched on the Internet using
> > GOOGLE.  See for example, "Polish Holiday
> > Cookery" by Robert Strybel, Page 214 (available in part
> > through GOOGLE Books).
> >
> >
> > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
> > FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 06:26 PM 16/01/2009, =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Anna_Zgli=F1ska?= wrote:
> > >"Wegierki" is a plural form for polish plums. This is just a kind
>of
> > >fruit.
> > >
> > >Did you search on Messtischblatter maps?
> > >
> > >
> > >Anna Zglinska
> > >