[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 107, Issue 7
Marlene Dopp
skylane at canby.com
Mon Apr 9 13:54:01 PDT 2012
Thank you all for your help. Yes you are right Gary, there was a mistake.
August and Anna are cousins, not siblings. I do have the family of Jacob
Goering and Friederike Zehner quite filled out as their daughter Christina
is my gr. Grandmother but I didn't have any children of their son Jacob
Goering and Anna Faeder so that is what confused me. Thank you for all the
search techniques, that will help me I am sure.
Marlene Dopp
-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
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Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 10:55 AM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 107, Issue 7
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Today's Topics:
1. Radom Area Communes (Gene Markiewicz)
2. Friedensdorf in Volhynia (Frank Stewner)
3. Re: Radom Area Communes (Hannes Werner)
4. Re: Radom Area Communes (Gene Markiewicz)
5. Goring birth record (Marlene Dopp)
6. Re: Goring birth record (Jerry Frank)
7. Re: Goring birth record (Gary Warner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 23:36:36 +0200
From: "Gene Markiewicz" <genemarkiewicz at aol.com>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom Area Communes
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <000301cd15cf$ad7bd5c0$08738140$@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello? from my processing of Radom Parish records.
Helenow is a frequently referenced village in the archive records I have
received? unfortunately it is also a common village name. From context of
records? i.e. villages of witnesses etc, I am quite sure that one of two
villages near Zwolen are likely. Two of the archive records refer to a
community (each a different one). I do not know what a community is and I
have not been able to find either of the two mentioned.
Helen?w (in the community of Aleks?w). I do not find the community of
Aleksow nor do I understand the terminology of ?community?.
Helen?w (in the community of Sarn?w) same question as above.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Eugene Markiewicz
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 07:11:23 +0200
From: "Frank Stewner" <dr.stewner at t-online.de>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Friedensdorf in Volhynia
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <000601cd160f$356f4ea0$a04debe0$@t-online.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
There are two Friedensdorf in Volhynia, best seen on Jerry Frank's map Q-2
and Q-4.
In the Volhynia gazetteer they will be soon shown as:
Friedensdorf (Frydendorf/W of Oleksandrivka), Novohrad-Volynskyi, Zhytomyr,
Ukraine
503815
273515
Q-2
And
Friedensdorf/Friedenshof/Frisowka (Frydrychowka/E of Vilkha), Romaniv,
Zhytomyr, Ukraine
501250
274400
Q-4
The numbers are giving the coordinates as ddmmss N ddmmss E (d=degree
m=minutes s=seconds).
The present gazetteer on the homepage (downloadable as a pdf) shows the
country as "Russian Empire (Ukraine)".
The mentioning of a direction to a next village (W of and E of) indicates
that both villages have disappeared which you can verify with Google Earth
using the above coordinates but written "dd mm ssN dd mm ssE".
Happy Easter greetings from Hamburg
Frank Stewner
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 11:49:37 +0200
From: "Hannes Werner" <Hannes.Werner at online.de>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom Area Communes
To: "Gene Markiewicz" <genemarkiewicz at aol.com>,
<ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <000c01cd1636$144b0bc0$15b2a8c0 at end2000>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Gene,
community = parish, commune, township
Aleksow
Think you're looking for OLEKSOW
20 km NE of Zwolen. There is a Helenow 10 km SW of Oleksow.
Sarnow is a small place 4 km SW of Oleksow.
Hannes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Markiewicz" <genemarkiewicz at aol.com>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 11:36 PM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom Area Communes
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 12:46:20 +0200
From: "Gene Markiewicz" <genemarkiewicz at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom Area Communes
To: "'Hannes Werner'" <Hannes.Werner at online.de>,
<ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <002401cd163e$00d11be0$027353a0$@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thank you Hannes,
These locations make sense and are consistent with other village names I
have for family, witnesses & etc all within 10km or so. The terminology
still seems strange to me... in the majority of records the records just had
Heleno^w but in these two cases they named the community... As they had to
go to Radom to register births/etc, I don't know that a parish existed in
any of these towns. almost feels like they were saying Helenow was the
village but they lived in the township of Sarno^w or Oleksow. It seems
consistent that whether colonists/settlers or tenants that they worked the
land as their livelihood.
Rose has offered to look at the scanned records so maybe the translation
will change a bit.
I'm beginning to feel like I know the neighborhood!
Eugene Markiewicz
-----Original Message-----
From: Hannes Werner [mailto:Hannes.Werner at online.de]
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 11:50 AM
To: Gene Markiewicz; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom Area Communes
Hi Gene,
community = parish, commune, township
Aleksow
Think you're looking for OLEKSOW
20 km NE of Zwolen. There is a Helenow 10 km SW of Oleksow.
Sarnow is a small place 4 km SW of Oleksow.
Hannes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Markiewicz" <genemarkiewicz at aol.com>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 11:36 PM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom Area Communes
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 08:53:41 -0700
From: "Marlene Dopp" <skylane at canby.com>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Goring birth record
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <000601cd1668$f02e7a00$d08b6e00$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I am having trouble locating a birth record that should be in the SGGEE
database. I found a confirmation record of August Goring on Film #2380025,
record #289, 1884. Right below this record, record # 290 list an Ann Goring
b 25 Dec 1870 with same parents Jacob Goring and Friederike Zehner confirmed
on the same day. This is a child I didn't know about so I am searching for
her birth record in the database. The confirmation record stated she was
born in Teremna. Could someone explain what I am doing wrong as I can't
find much in the database. I do have film # 905256 on indefinite loan which
should have the record that I can look up, but I would like to figure out
how to find it in the database too. Thank you in advance for any help.
Marlene Dopp
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 10:41:07 -0600
From: Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Goring birth record
To: Marlene Dopp <skylane at canby.com>
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <fb91d04cb1825.4f82bcc3 at shaw.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Use the Goering spelling to find her.? It appears she may be shown with
different mother but the birth date is an exact match so you may have to
investigate that further.? Also, the birth record is on film #2380017,
apparently not on your #905256.?
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Marlene Dopp <skylane at canby.com>
Date: Monday, April 9, 2012 9:58 am
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Goring birth record
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> I am having trouble locating a birth record that should be in
> the SGGEE
> database.?? I found a confirmation record of August
> Goring on Film #2380025,
> record #289, 1884.? Right below this record, record # 290
> list an Ann Goring
> b 25 Dec 1870 with same parents Jacob Goring and Friederike
> Zehner confirmed
> on the same day. This is a child I didn't know about so I am
> searching for
> her birth record in the database.? The confirmation record
> stated she was
> born in Teremna.? Could someone explain what I am doing
> wrong as I can't
> find much in the database.? I do have film # 905256 on
> indefinite loan which
> should have the record that I can look up, but I would like to
> figure out
> how to find it in the database too.? Thank you in advance
> for any help.
>
> Marlene Dopp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/communicate/mailing_list
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 10:53:14 -0700
From: Gary Warner <garyw555 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Goring birth record
To: Marlene Dopp <skylane at canby.com>,
ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <4F83220A.8020901 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Marlene,
Further to my last email, I was too hasty in not looking more closely at
the first search per Item 3 below.
I went back and looked more carefully at the results of a search wherein
the only criteria was Ja for father's given name and Fr for mother's
given name. Attached is the result (not sent to the list). You will
see that this search gives more than we want to know, but it also caught
two more children- Friederike Gering, and Christina Goering.
One additional thing that I forgot to mention is sometimes you need to
completely discount the leading letter of any surname or given name.
That is especially true if the database is transliterated from Russian
into the Roman alphabet (look especially closely at names beginning with
G or H as they are interchangeable in Russian, and J, as there is no J
in Russian- usually changed to Y). Also, since everyone' handwriting
is unique, you need to look carefully at names that begin with a P or a
B, as they sometimes look remarkably similar when written. Other
script letters can also be confusing.
Gary Warner
SGGEE Databases Manager
On 4/9/2012 9:55 AM, Gary Warner wrote:
> Marlene,
>
> Searching in any database is somewhat of an art, but there are things
> you can do to make it work better for you.
>
> Consider doing a search the same as pouring a soup through a sieve.
> If the holes in the sieve are large, then it is the same as the search
> criteria being very loose (that is, you enter nothing in the search
> criteria), and everything passes the sieve and the result is that you
> still have soup in its entirety that passes the sieve, and the return
> is all of the soup (data) in the soup (database).
>
> If you make the holes in the sieve smaller (more criteria in the
> search to be met), then a part of the soup gets hung up on the sieve,
> and you can look at what was caught to see if it is what you want to
> look at.
>
> On the other hand, if you make the sieve too small (too many items of
> criteria OR wrong criteria), then all of the soup gets caught in the
> sieve and nothing gets through that is special (including the liquid
> if you make the sieve holes non-existent).
>
> This is not a perfect analogy, since the sieve separates based on
> size, and the database search separates based on attributes (certain
> letter combinations in the data), but I think that you can see what I
> am trying to say.
>
> In the case of your Goring data, you first need to remember one thing,
> and that is just because you spell a name a certain way, does not mean
> others will spell it the same way. I have seen Goring spelled
> Goring, Goering and Goehring, and if given the list of possible
> alternatives, I would add Gering and Gehring, AND ANY OTHER NAME THAT
> SOUNDS PHONETICALLY THE SAME.
>
> So what to do, given that there are so many variations, and this is
> with a simple name?
>
> 1. You could do iterative searches wherein you enter all variations
> of given and surnames- tedious at best, and you are likely going to
> make some errors that invalidate the search, no matter how painstaking
> you do this.
>
> 2. You could enter in the surname as just Go (just the first two
> letters), and the given name as August and you would recover August
> Goering born in 1869 (you would actually recover two identical August
> Goering, since he is listed as part of the original St. Petersburg
> duplicate records database, and again from the separate original
> Rozyszcze parish films). Note, however, that this would not have
> found August Gering, if that is the way his name is spelled in the
> database.
>
> 3, My preference in a search is to first MINIMIZE the amount of
> search criteria and see if you can live with the large return of data
> that was caught. If too much data is caught, then add more criteria,
> but only a letter at a time. To find all of the members of a family
> in one search I would (in this case), enter no surnames anywhere, but
> instead enter in just the given names of the father and mother (I
> would enter in only Ja for the father, and Fri for the mother, since
> there are again more than one spelling for given names). I do this
> search, but the results of this search are still a bit loose, since it
> includes more people than I am interested in, so in addition, I enter
> Ze in the mother's surname field, and the result is in the attachment.
>
> Those on the list will not get the attachment, so I will describe that
> the method in 3 above yields two August, two Ferdinand, and one Anna,
> all plausibly the children of Jakob or Jacob Goering or Goehring and
> Friederike or Friedericke Zehnert or Zehnhof, of Zekner or Zelmer.
> You will have to look at the original records to determine if the
> extracted names are as shown, or if they are really all one name or
> the other. Remember that even if they are really all from one
> family, the pastor who made the entries may have 'misspelled' the
> names, since he was only writing what he heard and what he knew to spell.
>
> The above searches may still not have yielded all the children of this
> couple, since there are probably some births where the names are even
> more different, or the mother's name is omitted, etc. Now that you
> have a better understanding of how to search, you can explore more on
> your own.
>
> Gary Warner
> SGGEE Databases Manager
>
>
> On 4/9/2012 8:53 AM, Marlene Dopp wrote:
>> I am having trouble locating a birth record that should be in the SGGEE
>> database. I found a confirmation record of August Goring on Film
>> #2380025,
>> record #289, 1884. Right below this record, record # 290 list an Ann
>> Goring
>> b 25 Dec 1870 with same parents Jacob Goring and Friederike Zehner
>> confirmed
>> on the same day. This is a child I didn't know about so I am
>> searching for
>> her birth record in the database. The confirmation record stated she
>> was
>> born in Teremna. Could someone explain what I am doing wrong as I can't
>> find much in the database. I do have film # 905256 on indefinite
>> loan which
>> should have the record that I can look up, but I would like to figure
>> out
>> how to find it in the database too. Thank you in advance for any help.
>>
>> Marlene Dopp
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/communicate/mailing_list
------------------------------
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