[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland's "Dutch" Villages
FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca
Wed Jul 4 07:50:46 PDT 2012
This is all great material. But one statement at the end gives me cause for concern, even though the word is in quote marks implying a special meaning. Such reference without immediate clarification can be taken out of context and misused.
Quote: ". . .about 1880 peasants of more than 20 "Dutch" villages of the region of Gostynin . . ."
If I refer to a German village, a Hungarian village, a Romanian village, in Poland or anywhere else, I am referring to the primary ethnic make-up of that village. If you refer to a village as a Dutch village, the average reader will assume an ethnic connotation, not a legal / political one. The villages in the Gostynin region may have been Hollendry in a legal sense but no Dutch, Frisian, Mennonite or otherwise, ever lived there (with of course the exception of a half dozen or so villages along the Wisla River between Plock and Warsaw). The vast majority of Dutch settlements were in Prussian Poland, not Russian Poland.
In a similar vein, cities in Eastern Europe that operated under German City Law are never referred to as German cities. The correlation should be the same for the villages operating under Dutch or Hollendry Law.
The website that was initially referenced to start this discussion makes reference to Dutch people, Dutch graves, Dutch schools, etc. and such misrepresentation is totally inaccurate when used for the Russian Poland villages.
----- Original Message -----
From: Otto <otto at schienke.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 7:33 am
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland's "Dutch" Villages
To: sggee mail list <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> To follow up on Helen's comments:
> Lack of an insight to past history creates a morning fog
> situation. Poland has been host to many ethnic immigrants, for
> that is what our forefathers were.
> I've condensed the following as much as needed yet kept it
> informative if you do the suggested supportive readings. May you
> be left with an expanded view of colonist settlers and their
> motives upon completion even though we are always left with
> questions generated.
> National boundaries are constantly changing so it is preferable
> to analyze our villages using ethnicity/genetics as a base.
> Who qualify as "Germanic" people?
> Peoples of the Germanic tribes.
> Most Dutch, Frisian, Saxon, English, Danes, Norwegian,
> Icelandics, Swedes, Finns, Swiss, French, many Americans,
> Canadians, Afrikaners and even many people in present day
> Germany and some in Poland and surrounding countries. Add
> your own to the list.
> Why do people immigrate?
> Because we can, to promote our self-interests.
> The immigrants lived in harmony with their local geographical
> features and area's laws.
> The colonization of Poland's glacial river valleys occurred
> during the middle ages by people living under the 'jus
> theutonicum', the German right. Around 1500 c.e. only
> marshy pradoliny (polish for valley) and sand soil free of
> silt (Icelandic geological name 'sandr') remains.
> Hanseatic League (trade) These all come into play.
> Danzig was a 'free city'. East Prussia became the first Lutheran
> state in the world 1525.
> Our discussion is one of geography.
> Poland's reasons for wanting certain immigrants to settle: To
> make fertile river valley muck areas, glacial sandr areas and
> also flood control.
> Needed were immigrants capable of turning swamps and marshes
> into fields and meadows.
> Who? The "Dutch", specifically the Frisians, with a couple
> thousand years or so of living on the waterfronts. This type of
> work was performed in not only what is present day Holland but
> the Atlantic coast of France, in the English Fens and on many
> areas of the German coast and in Poland.
> There existed reasons for persons to migrate:
> Economic, social and religious which encompassed waterfront
> plague, political strife and war, religious strife and war and
> to maintain the Frisian freedom oft referred to as 'Dutch' town law.
> Time of migrations:
> 1300's ce
> 1400's ce
> 1500's ce
> 1600's ce
> Areas that were migrated to over the years from west to east
> (north sea to baltic sea):
> Polish/Royal Prussia
> Ducal Prussia (became 1st Lutheran state in the world 1525 ce)
> From 1530 ce onward:
> Many were Frisian Mennonites, followers of Menno Simons, an ex-
> roman catholic priest.
> 1496 ce- 1561ce.
> Anabaptist religious leader.
> Contemporaries: Zwingli, Amman, Grebel, Clavin and Luther
> Not all Mennonites were Frisian, not all Frisians were Mennonites.
> The settlers were NOT going to drain swamps and create fertile
> sand banks with much sweat and toil under German town law to
> revert back to nobles.
> It would happen under Frisian town law or as referred to, "Dutch law".
> Three main migrations to Poland to live under the so-called
> "Dutch" town law:
> 2,000 "Dutch" villages in Poland, some remain.
> Three main immigrations:
> 1 Frisian (dutch)
> 2 Pomeranian
> 3 Silesian
> Some notes:
> 1564 "Dutch" settlers in the area of Graudenz
> 1629 negotiating with the city of Warsaw about the colonization
> of the islands in the Vistula
> 1650 on the mouth of river Wieprz
> Jan Zamoyski governor of Marienburg
> 2nd immigration
> 1660 Pomeranians in the 'Dutch manner.'
> 3rd focus of immigration
> 1700's Silesians came to Poland -to the south of the provinces
> of Poznań and Kalisz
> (many Poles now bearing the name "Nowak" - Newman.
> Only "Free men" would take the time to develop the poor soil.
> Times changed - about 1880 peasants of more than 20 "Dutch"
> villages of the region of Gostynin left for Wolhynia.
> Others went to Siberia.
> I've based some of this on a six page article written by Dr.
> Walter Maas - 1901 - 1976 (1951 papers (6) on "Dutch Villages"
> in Poland. copyrighted.
> If you have access to a university library you can obtain it
> from JSTR.
> . . . Otto
> " The Zen
> moment..." wk. of January 01, 2012-
> "The World Is . . . what we make of it."
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