[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA Testing?

Dan Buss dbuss at rogers.com
Wed Sep 11 12:10:18 PDT 2013

Hello Otto,
Read your Epistle to the Non-believers, and am still left with the major 
question of: How in the world does this DNA thing link you or me to the past 
people long gone without them having provided a sample spit, or 
Dan B.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Otto" <otto at schienke.com>
To: "SGGEElistserv list" <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 11:52 AM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA Testing?

> Good morning Listers!
> The question has been asked many times.  I've wanted to submit a reply but 
> did not take time to do so. . . so many e-letters to type.
> But then, perhaps I just procrastinate.
> I know there are many on the List and also SGGEE members who have taken 
> the test I am discussing here, one I feel is a helper to paper-trail 
> research. The participants can speak for themselves. I am willing to 
> answer questions limited to this test and its use but will do so 
> privately.
> I am involved in both paper-trail and DNA research and receive the same 
> delight from a new paper record of a past relative of mine as from a DNA 
> match without a paper. The signature of a g.g.g. grandfather on paper, 
> Wow.-the DNA genetic shift because of just one marital union, Wow.
> This is today, we cannot have the chicken without the egg. Both is better. 
> Like a right and left hand washing dishes. SGGEE and 23andMe, a symbiotic 
> relationship.
> The question that has come to the fore ofttimes, "Of what value is DNA 
> testing?
> There must be a value because the field is growing tremendously.
> DNA testing proves to be an adjunct to paper-trail research.
> Paper-trail research proves to be an adjunct to DNA trail research.
> I see no difference between the two. . . except DNA records are more 
> accurate.
> Paper-trail offers a written legal pedigree, that is, in accordance with 
> all the relevant rules.
> DNA offers a biological pedigree (we must view ourselves as a lump of 
> information, code; no bluffing in the code).
> I always think of a stateside cartoon series (the funny paper) of the 
> past; Popeye, the sailer-man and his saying, "I yam what I yam and tha's 
> all what I yam."  So goes it with DNA testing.
> "What benefit is DNA testing for paper-trail genealogy?"
> Civil paper records "state" I am my father's son. They are my legal 
> identification.
> *note: A woman on the DNA site enjoyed the test so much (all of that 
> info!) but not possessing a Y chromosome (female are X~X, no male Y~X) 
> badgered her paper-trail father into taking the test, paid for it as a 
> stimulus. He finally agreed. She waited impatiently for the results-they 
> finally arrived!  No match. . . not your father. . .Time to talk to Mom.
> DNA biological records prove it out. They are biological identification.
> DNA testing has released many persons wrongly convicted on criminal 
> charges.
> Types of DNA testing:
> "STR" testing for "Haplotype" will prove out that I am my son's father.
> Short Tandem Repeats -STR, a favorite in forensics.
> and 23andMe spit-testing
> "SNP" testing for "Haplogroup" (23andme) will provide a 23 chromosome, 
> 1,000,000 + markers big picture test leading into the distant past.
> Single Nucleotide polymorphism -SNPs,  valuable in study of disease 
> development and critical in personalized medicine. For genealogy purposes 
> it provides a 23 chromosome based view of what genes a person is knit 
> from.
> -It creates a "Y-Haplogroup", based on the Y chromosome which contains 
> markers passed from father to father to father into the distant past.
> My Y-Haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a1*, the base group is "R" and each character 
> after the initial R represents a mutation, for example, 
> 1-b-1-b-2-a-1-a-1-*,  the asterisk marks an as of yet unclassified 
> mutation.  I refer to it as Mother Nature's latest software code update.
> -it creates a mtDNA-Haplogroup, based on the DNA of mitochondria in the 
> red blood cells, passed from mother to mother to mother and so on into the 
> distant past.
> My mtDNA-Haplogroup is H1, the base group is "H" and each character after 
> the initial H represents a mutation.
> So. . . What has it offered me besides my health scenario. . . (Yo! 
> Mon!-Sheesh, I thought so. . . now I know it for sure and live 
> accordingly)
> Health includes Health Risks, Drug Response, Inherited Conditions, Traits, 
> Health Tools
> DNA testing pointed me to the shorelines of the North Sea and beyond, 
> laying claim to being an ancient inhabitant of Doggerland, now lying 
> beneath the North Sea since the last glacial meltdown.  This immediately 
> redirected my paper-trail research to the Baltic Sea coast and west to the 
> North Sea coast.  The "Cluster Effect" came to the fore as I searched for 
> similar peoples moving along the coast to eastern territories. I am making 
> headway-"can't know where you are going until you know where you coming 
> from."
> What else did genetic testing with 23andme provide for me?
> -It provided me with my "Ancestry Composition"- My mixed gene bag of who I 
> really am. Amazing!
> -It provided me with my "Maternal Line" History (research can also be 
> conducted online (google, Wiki,etc) using just the haplogroup characters)
> -It provided me with my "Paternal Line" History (ditto)
> -It provide me with my "Neanderthal Ancestry" (2.6%. . . my deceased wife 
> always accused me of carrying some markers-I accused her family of 
> carrying many markers. . . her brother tested Y-haplogroup R1b1b2a1a1. . . 
> @ 2.9% Neanderthal (yeh! I knew it!)
> Well, I at least remain the latest haplogroup update. . .*)
> -"Ancestry Tools" box has a variety of algorithms to play with-I like 
> "Global Similarity."
> -It provided me (to date)  "DNA Relatives.", with 766 biological 
> relatives.
> Some are paper-trail verified-(They must also be spit-tested and part of 
> the database group.)
> A few verified paper-trailers follow:
> I ran 23andme application ("Family Traits" algorithm) and tested myself 
> against myself. . . Yup! 100% me.  "I yam what I yam and tha's all what I 
> yam."
> I ran their application (algorithm) and tested myself against my son. . 
> .50% me. (it is my son!)
> I ran their application (algorithm) and tested myself against my first 
> cousin. .  Yup! 1st cousin maternal side!
> I ran their application (algorithm) and tested myself against my 3rd 
> cousin. . . 3rd cousin he is!
> -Without a present day paper-trail ID, in  "DNA Relatives.", Norman Radke 
> rates as a 5th cousin, his offspring rate as cousins, Donald Miller rates 
> as a 5th cousin, Earl Schultz rates as a 10th cousin and so on. Albert 
> Muth and I are very similar genetically but not part of a direct line of 
> descent even though Albert is also a cousin to Donald Miller. . . and Meta 
> Fife.
> This is just the beginning. Many more names will be added to the  "DNA 
> Relatives" relative list.  Once a DNA connection is established, contact 
> must be established and a paper-trail connection needs to be made.  In 
> checking the 23andme site for the number of cousins, I noticed another 
> close female relative I have the paper-trail for. . . Gotta write to her.
> -It provides me with my "Gene Comparison" to the rest of the 23andme 
> group. ( birds of a feather do flock together)
> It provides me with my "Family Traits", an application, (algorithm) which 
> I use to compare my genes with all who have agreed to share with me at 
> 23andme. Your  actual DNA code is never seen by others and vice-versa. 
> 23andme computer algorithms do the work for you. Quickly.
> -One can also participate in their research. . .  With paper-trail and DNA 
> trail pursuits, my time is limited.
> -A "Community Site" and "Blog" exists for answers to questions.
> . . .   Otto
>         " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 01, 2013-
>                _____________________________________
>                  "Answers out there . . .  Seeking us."
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