[Ger-Poland-Volhynia] How can I get my DNA tested?
Lynda Radke
lradke at procognis.com
Sun Sep 15 07:56:51 PDT 2013
For those interested, Autosomal DNA testing is offered by three companies:
23 and me -
https://www.23andme.com/?utm_source=extole&utm_medium=referafriend&utm_campa
ign=extole
FTDNA -
http://www.familytreedna.com/family-finder-compare.aspx?utm_expid=75158416-3
.5utAhPh-QI6DKemUi6Dkxw.0&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.familytreedna.com%2F
%3Fv2%3Dtrue
Ancestrydna - http://dna.ancestry.com/
All three use saliva to perform the test and all are currently $99.
Generally, you spit into the tube in the kit and send it back to the lab in
the provided envelope. My personal preference is 23 and me, because they
give you health information (such as your risk for breast cancer or
Alzheimer's) in addition to the ancestry information and because their data
base is so much larger.
I also wanted to point out that you do not need to use your real name when
you test. For children, I use their initials (i.e. BAP, for my Niece). For
adults who are concerned about privacy I use a first initial and last name
(for example 'R. Radke'). I have tested in my own full name and never had
any issue, but for people who are worried about privacy, knowing that you
can test anonymously is helpful.
No matter which service you use I recommend uploading your data to the free
service, Gedmatch - www.gedmatch.com which will allow you to compare your
DNA with people who have tested using a different service.
For those who have already tested, my applicable gedmatch IDs are:
N. Radke M211447
R. Radke M184717
G. Radke M083936
Best,
Lynda
-----Original Message-----
From: Ger-Poland-Volhynia [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at sggee.org] On
Behalf Of BruceB2332 at aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 1:55 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] How can I get my DNA tested?
Hi,
This really interests me, as both of my Grandparents were from German
Volhynia.. How can I do this, and how much does it cost?
Sincerely,
Bruce Braun
In a message dated 9/14/2013 3:38:55 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
ger-poland-volhynia-request at sggee.org writes:
Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://www.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
ger-poland-volhynia-request at sggee.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
ger-poland-volhynia-owner at sggee.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..."
If responding to a digest message, please change your subject line to that
of the message and delete all other non-applicable messages.
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Catholic Poles and Lutheran Germans (Linda Bowen)
2. Re: Catholic Poles and Lutheran Germans (Jerry Frank)
3. Re: Catholic Poles and Lutheran Germans (Jerry Frank)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:33:43 -0500
From: Linda Bowen <lindakbowen at cox.net>
To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Catholic Poles and Lutheran Germans
Message-ID: <5234BA17.1060605 at cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I have ordered a Catholic records film for Ostrog. My second great
grandfather on my mother's side was Polish. I'm hoping I might find
information on his family in these records.
The film is back ordered so it may be awhile before I get it.
I became involved in my family history because of him. Jaruschewitz
sounded like a very Jewish name to me.
My great grandmother's baptismal records indicates he was Catholic and a
settler.
My grandmother was horrified when my uncle became engaged to a Catholic
girl. I'm not sure she realized that her grandfather was Catholic.
They ended up not getting married and in the end he married a nice"
German girl" with Volhynian roots.
I had my autosomal DNA done at ancestry and then uploaded my raw data
to GEDmatch and to FTDNA.
My younger brother tested for YDNA and MTDNA at FTDNA
My autosomal DNA really surprised me when it gave me a mix that
included only 7% central Europe.
It turns out I'm a real mutt, roughly 1/4 British Isles, 1/4
Scandinavian , 31 % eastern Europe and 11% Volga-ural.
One of my best matches on GEDmatch and also on FTDNA told me that some
of my fairly close matches are Jewish.
My brother's YDNA is more prevalent in eastern Europe than it is in
Germany and several of the matches for his YDNA indicate they may be
Askenazi Jews.
Message for Lynda Radke.
One of my 4th cousin matches on ancestry has the name Radke from
Wladymir Wolynsk area.
Wilhelm Radke married Eva Kreuger
There is a Gustav Radke born in 1885, Emil Radke born in 1890 . Emil
married Olga Hammerling.
Radke is a very common name in Volhynia, but just thought I'd mention
these names in case something fits.
On 9/14/2013 11:51 AM, Jerry Frank wrote:
> I have not heard of Lutherans being registered in Catholic churches in
Volhynia. If any readers find such records, please let us know. Most
certainly they did so in Russian Poland, not because they wanted a church
connection but because they were mandated to do so by the government as
long as
there was no Lutheran church nearby to accommodate the registration. Jews
also registered at Catholic churches until their synagogues were given
permission to do registrations, I think in the 1830s or so. Mennonites
registered at Lutheran or Catholic churches because they were not
officially
recognized as a church.
>
> In Volhynia, government regulations were more lax, at least until the
1890s. Although parish buildings were few and far between, a Betshaus
(literally prayer house) was a common entity. Registration was done
through the
local Lutheran Kantor (lay preacher / teacher) which most communities, or
groups of communities, had. He was authorized to perform baptisms, conduct
funerals, and teach confirmation class. Only the pastor could serve
communion and perform marriages. When the pastor came through the area, he
would copy the Kantorate records into the official church book. The Kantor
did
not always do a good job. I recall seeing a note on one of the pages of
St. Pete records where the pastor was decrying the poor quality and
accuracy
of the records he had received from a Kantor.
> If some records for a particular event are missing in Volhynia, it is
not generally because they are recorded at a Catholic church but rather
that
the Kantor missed the entry, the pastor missed copying it, a book for a
particular period of time is missing, etc.
>
> German Catholics in Volhynia were quite rare. Those there were often in
the cities, occupied in some special trade rather than in farming.
>
> Jews in Volhynia were not large estate owners. They were not permitted
to own land in the 19th century. They were numerous in number, being part
of the Pale of Settlement. I don't know the percentage of farmers vs.
tradesmen but for those that were farmers, think "Fiddler on the Roof".
>
> Rumors of Jewish connections seem to abound among Germans from Russia
but I have never seen any verified stories of such a connection. Don't
forget that Jews did not use surnames until mandated to do so by Napoleon
in the
late 1700s. It is far more likely that they adapted or adopted a German
surname than that they are your ancestor. I am not saying that the
possibility should never be explored but if other options remain open to
you,
consider them first. I am not aware of any particular history that
suggests
that German Lutherans married Jews, certainly no more so than that they
married a Catholic, a Pole, a Ukrainian or any other faith or ethnicity.
Such
events occurred but they were very rare in the 19th century or earlier.
>
> And finally two comments from the other part of the thread. The Vistula
Germans tag is commonly applied to those Germans who lived along the Wisla
River east of Thorn and on to Warsaw. As of 1815, this territory became
part of Russian Poland so after that year there would be no migration of
Vistula Germans to Russian Poland. They were already part of it.
>
> And regarding Germans being known as Russians after 1854 - this was not
the case. They always remained German by ethnicity (of course often
adapting some local customs and food items along the way). But they became
Russian as a nationality based on the controlling power at the time. For
example, in 1921, the Germans in western Volhynia who had been Russian, now
became Polish.
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charlotte Dubay" <hoeserhistory at aol.com>
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
> Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 9:45:57 AM
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Catholic Poles and Lutheran Germans
>
>
>
> Linda Susak wrote on Sept 14, 2013:
>
> In my family, Vistula Germans, before they moved to Russian Poland
sometime after 1860s, the difference was between Catholic and Lutheran.
The
people married each other or people from other German villages. It was a
great "sin" to marry a Pole because he/she was Catholic. One sibling of my
grandmother did this, and the family never spoke to him again. He was
totally
ostracized from the community.
>
>
> From: Krampetz at aol.com
> To: hoeserhistory at aol.com, ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 8:56:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German Prussians vs German Russians
>
> There are two kinds of Germans from Russia too..
> Those that were from Russia (Volhynia) and
> Those from Poland, who gave Russia as their home.
> -because they were told they were Russian sometime after
1854(?)
>
> Char writes:
> Yes, prejudice between Catholics and German Lutherans ran deep. (I
married a Catholic, and they loved him, but hated it when I "converted"-
big to
do on both sides - and this was in early 50s!)
>
> But actually in Heimthal and Volhynia area it was sometimes different -
out of necessity. As I previously wrote, there were few actual parish
buildings for church attendance. (The brick manse/church at Heimthal in
particular wasn't built until after my family left there in 1894.) So
history
shows that the Lutherans many times were married, or baptized USING A
CATHOLIC
CHURCH! Guess they figured it out: some church was better than none church!
>
> The Catholic church records are said to be thorough; I don't know
procedure to get to the records, so I have not done this search. Should. I
am
missing protestant baptism records that were not found at St. Pete's.
>
> I haven't done research to see what the population was in Volhynia for
Catholics. Should do that, too. That would be interesting. I know that
Jewish farmers were rare. The Jews were generally business men and ran
almost
all of the factories in the full Volhynia region when my ancestors were
there (100 some factories, and more than 100 run by Jews - I forget the
statistic). Just a small % of the Jews were "farmers", (if I remember, like
3%)
and they were generally owners of larger estates.
>
> I tried to do some research on local Judaism because some cousins think
that our ggrandmother's family was Jewish, and perhaps converted in
Heimthal. This thought is held because of old photos and whisperings in the
family
years ago. But I have had no luck finding Bonderman(n) history. Even had a
Jewish genealogist do some checking for me in his records, but can't seem
to find the surname Bonderman anywhere near. Weichman(n) families held
Christian baptisms way back into history. And logic doesn't hold that there
would be a peasant Jewish family in with all the German peasants/farmers -
for
love and marriage to happen...
>
> New thought: isn't it strange that there is history shown that German
Lutherans married Jews, but held such animosity toward Polish Catholics!
hmmm. (Prejudice toward Poles was also very great in the Dakotahs as my
German
Lutheran ancestors arrived there. Couldn't date a "Polack" - or a
"Russian". Guess that they took their opinions with them wherever they
went. hah)
>
> My ggrandfather lived in Bromberg as a child, and they hated Poles. The
Prussian government would not allow Polish to be spoken on the streets of
Bromberg just prior to my ancestors leaving the area. You were jailed if
you
did. No churches, or Polish schools were allowed to be built in Bromberg
then, even though Poles were the majority and had been there way longer
than
the Germans (which you all probably know...). This was in early 1860s. We
assume that his father died in the 1848 wars for "freedom" and more peasant
rights. History seems ironic - and certainly seems to repeat itself.
>
>
> Charlotte DuBay
> hoeserhistory at aol.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia site list
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia at sggee.org
> https://www.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia site list
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia at sggee.org
> https://www.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:29:32 -0600 (MDT)
From: Jerry Frank <franklyspeaking at shaw.ca>
To: Linda Bowen <lindakbowen at cox.net>
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Catholic Poles and Lutheran Germans
Message-ID: <134130857.19443869.1379190572099.JavaMail.root at cds026>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
The records will confirm any theories you have though I don't know if a
mixed marriage would ever be recorded at a Jewish synagogue. An important
thing to remember is that recording at authorized churches or synagogues
pre
WW I was mandated in Russian Poland. That same mandate did not exist in
Volhynia.
The sound of a name, the shape of a nose, nor any other of the other often
thought of indicators do not imply Jewish heritage. I have seen all kinds
of reasons given for a supposed Jewish heritage. A lot of people insist I
must be Jewish because of my surname but it simply isn't true. Now a
letter written in Yiddish by a family member as reported by Kenneth Browne
in
a previous message, that may be a different matter. Here you have some
kind of physical evidence. For a typical German, Yiddish might be used to
communicate at a market town but not in a letter. I would not rely on a
close
dna match telling you about Jewish connections. She may be just as
misinformed as many others are. I don't want to discourage your research.
I
just don't want others jumping on the same bandwagon based on vague
notions.
As for Ashkenazi roots, I think almost everyone with east European
connections shows some percentage of Ashkenazi roots. It however proves
nothing
in terms of Jewishness. If it were possible to check the dna of an
ancestor
from 1000 years ago, you might find that the percentage has not changed
much because other factors have changed a lot.
I am not anti-Jewish. I just find that some people (not necessarily you)
have an unusual obsession with a need to be Jewish in some way and good
research time gets wasted in going in that direction.
Jerry Frank
----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda Bowen" <lindakbowen at cox.net>
To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 1:33:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Catholic Poles and Lutheran Germans
I have ordered a Catholic records film for Ostrog. My second great
grandfather on my mother's side was Polish. I'm hoping I might find
information on his family in these records.
The film is back ordered so it may be awhile before I get it.
I became involved in my family history because of him. Jaruschewitz
sounded like a very Jewish name to me.
My great grandmother's baptismal records indicates he was Catholic and a
settler.
My grandmother was horrified when my uncle became engaged to a Catholic
girl. I'm not sure she realized that her grandfather was Catholic.
They ended up not getting married and in the end he married a nice"
German girl" with Volhynian roots.
I had my autosomal DNA done at ancestry and then uploaded my raw data
to GEDmatch and to FTDNA.
My younger brother tested for YDNA and MTDNA at FTDNA
My autosomal DNA really surprised me when it gave me a mix that
included only 7% central Europe.
It turns out I'm a real mutt, roughly 1/4 British Isles, 1/4
Scandinavian , 31 % eastern Europe and 11% Volga-ural.
One of my best matches on GEDmatch and also on FTDNA told me that some
of my fairly close matches are Jewish.
My brother's YDNA is more prevalent in eastern Europe than it is in
Germany and several of the matches for his YDNA indicate they may be
Askenazi Jews.
Message for Lynda Radke.
One of my 4th cousin matches on ancestry has the name Radke from
Wladymir Wolynsk area.
Wilhelm Radke married Eva Kreuger
There is a Gustav Radke born in 1885, Emil Radke born in 1890 . Emil
married Olga Hammerling.
Radke is a very common name in Volhynia, but just thought I'd mention
these names in case something fits.
On 9/14/2013 11:51 AM, Jerry Frank wrote:
> I have not heard of Lutherans being registered in Catholic churches in
Volhynia. If any readers find such records, please let us know. Most
certainly they did so in Russian Poland, not because they wanted a church
connection but because they were mandated to do so by the government as
long as
there was no Lutheran church nearby to accommodate the registration. Jews
also registered at Catholic churches until their synagogues were given
permission to do registrations, I think in the 1830s or so. Mennonites
registered at Lutheran or Catholic churches because they were not
officially
recognized as a church.
>
> In Volhynia, government regulations were more lax, at least until the
1890s. Although parish buildings were few and far between, a Betshaus
(literally prayer house) was a common entity. Registration was done
through the
local Lutheran Kantor (lay preacher / teacher) which most communities, or
groups of communities, had. He was authorized to perform baptisms, conduct
funerals, and teach confirmation class. Only the pastor could serve
communion and perform marriages. When the pastor came through the area, he
would
copy the Kantorate records into the official church book. The Kantor did
not always do a good job. I recall seeing a note on one of the pages of
St. Pete records where the pastor was decrying the poor quality and
accuracy
of the records he had received from a Kantor.
> If some records for a particular event are missing in Volhynia, it is
not generally because they are recorded at a Catholic church but rather
that
the Kantor missed the entry, the pastor missed copying it, a book for a
particular period of time is missing, etc.
>
> German Catholics in Volhynia were quite rare. Those there were often in
the cities, occupied in some special trade rather than in farming.
>
> Jews in Volhynia were not large estate owners. They were not permitted
to own land in the 19th century. They were numerous in number, being part
of the Pale of Settlement. I don't know the percentage of farmers vs.
tradesmen but for those that were farmers, think "Fiddler on the Roof".
>
> Rumors of Jewish connections seem to abound among Germans from Russia
but I have never seen any verified stories of such a connection. Don't
forget that Jews did not use surnames until mandated to do so by Napoleon
in the
late 1700s. It is far more likely that they adapted or adopted a German
surname than that they are your ancestor. I am not saying that the
possibility should never be explored but if other options remain open to
you,
consider them first. I am not aware of any particular history that
suggests
that German Lutherans married Jews, certainly no more so than that they
married a Catholic, a Pole, a Ukrainian or any other faith or ethnicity.
Such
events occurred but they were very rare in the 19th century or earlier.
>
> And finally two comments from the other part of the thread. The Vistula
Germans tag is commonly applied to those Germans who lived along the Wisla
River east of Thorn and on to Warsaw. As of 1815, this territory became
part of Russian Poland so after that year there would be no migration of
Vistula Germans to Russian Poland. They were already part of it.
>
> And regarding Germans being known as Russians after 1854 - this was not
the case. They always remained German by ethnicity (of course often
adapting some local customs and food items along the way). But they became
Russian as a nationality based on the controlling power at the time. For
example, in 1921, the Germans in western Volhynia who had been Russian, now
became Polish.
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charlotte Dubay" <hoeserhistory at aol.com>
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
> Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 9:45:57 AM
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Catholic Poles and Lutheran Germans
>
>
>
> Linda Susak wrote on Sept 14, 2013:
>
> In my family, Vistula Germans, before they moved to Russian Poland
sometime after 1860s, the difference was between Catholic and Lutheran.
The
people married each other or people from other German villages. It was a
great "sin" to marry a Pole because he/she was Catholic. One sibling of my
grandmother did this, and the family never spoke to him again. He was
totally
ostracized from the community.
>
>
> From: Krampetz at aol.com
> To: hoeserhistory at aol.com, ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 8:56:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German Prussians vs German Russians
>
> There are two kinds of Germans from Russia too..
> Those that were from Russia (Volhynia) and
> Those from Poland, who gave Russia as their home.
> -because they were told they were Russian sometime after
1854(?)
>
> Char writes:
> Yes, prejudice between Catholics and German Lutherans ran deep. (I
married a Catholic, and they loved him, but hated it when I "converted"-
big to
do on both sides - and this was in early 50s!)
>
> But actually in Heimthal and Volhynia area it was sometimes different -
out of necessity. As I previously wrote, there were few actual parish
buildings for church attendance. (The brick manse/church at Heimthal in
particular wasn't built until after my family left there in 1894.) So
history
shows that the Lutherans many times were married, or baptized USING A
CATHOLIC
CHURCH! Guess they figured it out: some church was better than none church!
>
> The Catholic church records are said to be thorough; I don't know
procedure to get to the records, so I have not done this search. Should. I
am
missing protestant baptism records that were not found at St. Pete's.
>
> I haven't done research to see what the population was in Volhynia for
Catholics. Should do that, too. That would be interesting. I know that
Jewish farmers were rare. The Jews were generally business men and ran
almost
all of the factories in the full Volhynia region when my ancestors were
there (100 some factories, and more than 100 run by Jews - I forget the
statistic). Just a small % of the Jews were "farmers", (if I remember, like
3%)
and they were generally owners of larger estates.
>
> I tried to do some research on local Judaism because some cousins think
that our ggrandmother's family was Jewish, and perhaps converted in
Heimthal. This thought is held because of old photos and whisperings in the
family
years ago. But I have had no luck finding Bonderman(n) history. Even had a
Jewish genealogist do some checking for me in his records, but can't seem
to find the surname Bonderman anywhere near. Weichman(n) families held
Christian baptisms way back into history. And logic doesn't hold that there
would be a peasant Jewish family in with all the German peasants/farmers -
for
love and marriage to happen...
>
> New thought: isn't it strange that there is history shown that German
Lutherans married Jews, but held such animosity toward Polish Catholics!
hmmm. (Prejudice toward Poles was also very great in the Dakotahs as my
German
Lutheran ancestors arrived there. Couldn't date a "Polack" - or a
"Russian". Guess that they took their opinions with them wherever they
went. hah)
>
> My ggrandfather lived in Bromberg as a child, and they hated Poles. The
Prussian government would not allow Polish to be spoken on the streets of
Bromberg just prior to my ancestors leaving the area. You were jailed if
you
did. No churches, or Polish schools were allowed to be built in Bromberg
then, even though Poles were the majority and had been there way longer
than
the Germans (which you all probably know...). This was in early 1860s. We
assume that his father died in the 1848 wars for "freedom" and more peasant
rights. History seems ironic - and certainly seems to repeat itself.
>
>
> Charlotte DuBay
> hoeserhistory at aol.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia site list
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia at sggee.org
> https://www.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia site list
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia at sggee.org
> https://www.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
>
_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia site list
Ger-Poland-Volhynia at sggee.org
https://www.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:37:28 -0600 (MDT)
From: Jerry Frank <franklyspeaking at shaw.ca>
To: Kenneth Browne <kbrowne01518 at gmail.com>
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Catholic Poles and Lutheran Germans
Message-ID: <1367661206.19445937.1379191048112.JavaMail.root at cds026>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
The letter written in Yiddish seems to imply a strong Jewish connection.
Many Germans would have some knowledge of Yiddish because of the need to
communicate in the marketplace. They would not normally use it to write a
letter. Are you certain it was Yiddish or could it have been low German?
There are some similarities.
I am a little confused about your question regarding Samuel. I only see
an 1865/6 birth described, not one 13 years earlier. If Samuel's birth is
recorded in the Lutheran Church in 1865 and his parent's marriage in the
Lutheran Church in 1852, where does the Jewish connection enter in? The
marriage record by the way would indicate if either spouse was anything
other
than Lutheran.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Browne" <kbrowne01518 at gmail.com>
To: ger-poland-volhynia at sggee.org
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 12:52:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Catholic Poles and Lutheran Germans
On 09/14/2013 12:51 PM, Jerry Frank wrote:
> Jews also registered at Catholic churches until their synagogues were
given permission to do registrations, I think in the 1830s or so.
My ggfather, Samuel Lachmann, was born in Sept, 1865 in Rozhysche
(sp?) and migrated to the U.S. (Chicago) in 1891. His first wife, my
ggmother, Alvine Mroch died young and her origins are still a mystery,
other than 1900 census which state
place of birth as "Germany". Samuels place of birth is listed as
"Russia."
In re: the above citation, is it possible that Samuel's birth in 1865
(or 1866) could have been recorded in a Lutheran church, even if he or
his parents were Jewish? Seems unlikely except for the existence of
letters written by his "sister in law" in 1931 and 1937. The first
letter in Yiddish, the second in English with help of a friend
states...'back to Poland we cannot go because we have no passport.'
I also have a digital copy of Samuel's parents' marriage in 1852. I
cannot read the Polish, but I can pick out some of the names and it
appears to mention a Samuel Lachmann. Other keywords that I picked out
of the document (a .TIF file) are Kielce, Antonielow, Gottfried
Lachmann, Juliana Josefa Wolf, and at the bottom what looks like
Pastor Kielecki.
As far as I know, Gottfried Lachmann's father was a Karl Lachmann. So
if I've deciphered these names correctly, who is this other Samuel
Lachmann who existed some 13 years before my ggf's birth? Ah, the
mystery of genealogy.
--
Kenneth Browne researching: BROWN(E) LEIGHTON TAYLOR CLOUGH/CLUFF
LACHMANN RUSSELL NOURSE MORSE PETTENGILL NOBLE SMALL WOLF MROCH
LUEDTKE HECKBERT MANTEI
_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia site list
Ger-Poland-Volhynia at sggee.org
https://www.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
------------------------------
End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 124, Issue 22
****************************************************
_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia site list
Ger-Poland-Volhynia at sggee.org
https://www.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
More information about the Ger-Poland-Volhynia
mailing list